Spire Versus Summit....Ponder this...

[JMAUSGP]

I have noticed that the price of used Summits and used Spires are now dead even.

If given the choice of a set of Summits or Spires at the same cost, which is the better speaker and which would you choose and why?

 

[FISH_MAN]

what is the purpose of this thread?

 

[Feltran]

The price has actually been more or less even since I bought my Spires well over a year ago. Obviously, I opted for the Spire. I feel that even without the 2nd driver, they have more than enough low end for my typical listening needs.

 

[Rich]

what is the purpose of this thread?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and throw out a wild guess . . . perhaps the purpose is to engage others in discussion about Martin Logan speakers, particularly as regards the current used values of the original Summit and the Spire, and given their equivalent value on the used market, to get an idea about whether members might prefer one over the other and find out their reasons for that preference? Just a guess.

If given the choice of a set of Summits or Spires at the same cost, which is the better speaker and which would you choose and why?

I would choose the Summit. I may be biased though, since that is what I own. But here are my reasons. The Summits go lower (24 hz. vs. 29 hz), and I expect they have less distortion at the lower levels (due to the dual drivers and dual amps). They have more control over the bass response (25 hz. and 50 hz. controls vs. just one at 35 hz.). The Summits also have a lower crossover point (270 hz. vs. 320 hz.). The Summits are slightly easier to drive (92 dB. vs. 91 dB.) The Summits are designed to handle more max. power (300 wpc. vs. 250 wpc.) and weigh 17 pounds more than the Spires, which would make them more stable.

The only advantages the Spire has over the Summit is a newer crossover design (giving a slightly better blend between woofer and panel) and the fact that a used Spire is likely to be a few years newer than a used Summit. Given all the above, I would take a used Summit over a used Spire at the same price point.

 

[twich54]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and throw out a wild guess . . . perhaps the purpose is to engage others in discussion about Martin Logan speakers, particularly as regards the current used values of the original Summit and the Spire, and given their equivalent value on the used market, to get an idea about whether members might prefer one over the other and find out their reasons for that preference? Just a guess.

:ROFL:......:devil:.......:ROFL:

I would take a used Summit over a used Spire at the same price point.

good reasoning Rich and I would agree.....with one exception, if one already owns a top notch 'sub' and has the ability to properly locate it within the room then the whole set-up should outperform the Summitts alone. Of course you could make the same argument for the Summitts and a sub as well............oh hell either way you got a winner !!!

 

[Gordon Gray]

I agree with Rich.

As some may remember, the other Gordon has Spires and recently purchased two JL subs and found the subs to add the bottom end weight missing in the Spires.

There have been numerous club members (Summit owners) who have indicated that a sub(s) is not necessary listening to two channel (non HT) audio material. One or two less boxes, cables, etc. in the room.

I also agree with Dave that the Spires may be the better choice if one has a high quality sub(s) and can "properly" integrate the sub(s) into their system.

I had some professional AV folks at my house last Monday to listen to my system. They asked if I had a sub with my two channel system.

Nope.

Finally, I may be wrong but (and I've said this before on several occasions) the flexibility allowed with the 25 and 50 hz controls on the Summits allow one to adjust the sound from anemic / sterile sounding to a veritable boom box and, of course, anything in between. Point being that I still question the "real" world value of the new crossover used in the "X" model or the Spire.

GG

 

[David Matz]

I had listened to the Summit on many occasions, so I was not choosing blindly. I chose the Spire because:

- I am very sensitive to the panel / woofer transition "glitch". The Spire's crossover is based on the CLX technology, which is superb, IMO.

- I was influenced by Ken Kessler's review in Hifi News. According to Kessler, who lived with the Summits every day for 4 or 5 years - and loved them every night, the Spire was a hands down better speaker. In addition to the crossover improvement, he also mentioned that despite the bass specs, the Spires sounded "heavier" to him.

None of this, of course, invalidates the reasons Summit owners provide.

Ownership bias is definitely present for both sides - people just like what they own. Thus it is better to listen to both speakers to decide.

 

[Rich]

:ROFL:......:devil:.......:ROFL:

.........:angel:..........

 

[JMAUSGP]

Thanks for the summary Rich.

I guess I should fess up about why I specifically wanted to know about the Summit versus the Spire. Obviously the cost is now equal between the two. So it is logically to try to understand which is the better speaker, given a certain set of circumstances.

I know it will not sit well with some but I am a multi-channel guy and I never listen to 2 channel anymore. If you are a two channel guy then you are lucky it costs less than multi-channel. Currently I have Vistas (rear) paired with my CLXs (front). I want to upgrage from the Vistas to either Summits or Spires.

Believe it or not my goal is to replace the Summit/Spire with used CLXs but that is probably a year or two away maybe even longer. I have Descent i handling the bass currently but some of the 5.1 material I have can give the rear channels quite an exercise. And that's why I want to upgrade.

 

[tonepub]

Seeing you already have subs, you might consider the Summit, only because the dual LF level controls make it a bit easier to dial into your room than the Spire with only one 35 hz control.

But, I'll bet you won't go wrong with either, they are both very good....

 

[Rich]

Currently I have Vistas (rear) paired with my CLXs (front). I want to upgrage from the Vistas to either Summits or Spires.

Now that's just mean. Lots of guys on this forum would give anything to be able to upgrade to Spires or Summits for their front channels, and you are looking at them for the rears. I love it!

Ok, for your particular application, here are my additional thoughts. Deep bass response isn't quite as necessary for the rear channels, especially since you have one (or two?) descent i's handling the really deep bass, so the Spire may be a good choice. Since the Spire has the same crossover technology as the CLX, perhaps it will meld better in a surround system. But I do agree with Jeff's point that the Summit gives you more flexibility for integration. Although, if your surround preamp has a digital equalization program (like Audyssey) that may not matter as much. What type of processor are you using? Do you have any acoustic treatments? I would think upgrading the processor or adding room treatments might have more impact for the money than upgrading the Vistas. But if you are already set in those areas, then ultimately Jeff is right, you can't really go wrong with either choice for your particular application.

 

[Bernard]

I guess I should fess up about why I specifically wanted to know about the Summit versus the Spire.

Since he voiced your room, perhaps you should ask Jim Smith for his opinion. BTW I recently purchased his book, and find it an interesting read.

 

[asindc]

Since he voiced your room, perhaps you should ask Jim Smith for his opinion. BTW I recently purchased his book, and find it an interesting read.

What is the title of the book? Where did you find it?

 

[RUR]

What is the title of the book? Where did you find it?

Get Better Sound. Not inexpensive on Amazon as, apparently, it's out of print. No cheaper via ABE. Perhaps if you PM Jim, he can supply a copy more reasonably.

 

[Bernard]

What is the title of the book? Where did you find it?

I got it from this site:

http://www.getbettersound.com/

 

[Gordon]

Wow, multi-channel with CLX! That surely would be an impressive setup.

I'm a relative newb with ML compared to some of the other folks here. As Gordon mentioned, I did want more bottom support hence the subs. Dollar wise, the Spire/subs would be just about equal to a pair of Summits new. The X was still being talked about here when I upgraded the Vantage so I choose the Spire and the new crossover. I can't comment on the 25 and 50 hz control and how it assists in blending.

The combination I have works for me and gives me the flexibility I desire. Granted, there are two more boxes and cables to add and it does honestly make the room look clunky with all the traps and boxes. I don't think I'd trade the subs and Spires for a pair of X's.

Gordon

 

[adanny]

Since he voiced your room, perhaps you should ask Jim Smith for his opinion. BTW I recently purchased his book, and find it an interesting read.

Whats the Jim Smith angle? And what makes the book interesting? Is it a fun read or does it actually have non-obvious tips?

I checked it out on amazon and as I was doing that, I realized that I own literally thousands of books on other topics but very few on my AV hobby. And none that actually helped me. The ones I have are too basic or too boring

What are some audiophile level, yet credible, books that folks here have read and enjoyed? Of course, this tangent might now get this thread moved so let me add that I think the Summits are much better than Spires but mostly because I bought Summits when I myself agonized over this quandary

 

[Bernard]

Whats the Jim Smith angle? And what makes the book interesting? Is it a fun read or does it actually have non-obvious tips?

Jim Smith does not have an "angle" as such. The goal of the book is to help you get the maximum that you can out of your existing system. He explains at length that the most important component of your system is the room itself, and goes into great detail about placement of speakers, room treatment, etc. He believes (and rightly so) that you should work to get the best out of what you have instead of throwing money at the system in the form of new equipment. He is not against buying new stuff, just against buying stuff instead of first sorting out your room.

He does have some non-obvious tips, e.g. he states that tube electronics should not be placed at floor-wall boundaries. I have not yet tried it out as I do not have a man-cave, so WAF is a factor. My long-suffering wife is very tolerant, but there are some things that just do not work in a living-room.

Basically you get the benefit of his experience through thousands of installations.

One interesting thing he states is that he had clients whom he helped set up an elaborate home theatre system and a two-channel system. In a number of cases (maybe most cases, can't remember), after the inital blush wore off the home theatre system was used very infrequently but the two-channel system was used a lot.

 

[tonepub]

I think the book is well worth the money, even if you find one good tweak or setup idea that helps your system sound better...

 

[miner]

I second the Jim Smith book. I have m,any DON'Ts in my listening room I need to correct. I am the boss of my Man Cave and I have my wife's permission to say so.