Spire Home Theater Placement Question

[stevenic]

You must get your speakers a certain distance out from the side walls and the front wall to get them to sound their best. You must have a reasonable distance between them in relation to their distance to the listener in order for them to sound their best. You must have a minimal amount of cabinetry in between them in order for them to sound their best.

Wow... I Didn't realize just how much having something between your speakers would affect their sound stage.

I have a 61" Plasma setting on an 18" high BDI stand and flanked by a pair of Vantages. The BDI stand doesn't have anything but a Center in it and it doesn't have any side walls so its pretty open. Until tonight I had the front of my Vantages pretty much flush with the front of the stand and about 6" forward of the plasma screen.

I was already getting pretty decent imaging from them as they set (keep in mind I've only had them for a week) but as an experiment I pushed them back toward the front wall to make them flush with the plasma and sure enough the sound stage broke up. On my test track the singer was no longer firmly planted in between the two speakers and seemed to bounce back and forth between the left & right side. It definitely didn't sound as good as before when they were forward of the plasma.

So the next thing I did was to go the other way and pull them out into the room forward of the stand 6" and forward of the plasma 16". I also pulled them away from the side walls a touch more to give them a bit more room to breath. With these adjustments the speakers are 7' apart center-center and my listening position is 10' from the center of the sound stage.

Major difference from when they were flush with the plasma and even a bit of an improvement over where I had them before tonight. I need to go back and listen to some other tracks to verify but the position of the singer and everything else in the sound stage seem to be more clearly defined then before. And if nothing else moving them away from teh walls a bit more seems to have helped a bit of boomyness I was getting on some tacks.

Brad, given what I heard tonight during my experiments I would recommend that you at least try pulling your speakers forward of your desk once you get everything setup. I think you'll hear a difference...

-steve

 

[robertawillisjr]

Wow... I Didn't realize just how much having something between your speakers would affect their sound stage.

I have a 61" Plasma setting on an 18" high BDI stand and flanked by a pair of Vantages. The BDI stand doesn't have anything but a Center in it and it doesn't have any side walls so its pretty open. Until tonight I had the front of my Vantages pretty much flush with the front of the stand and about 6" forward of the plasma screen.

I was already getting pretty decent imaging from them as they set (keep in mind I've only had them for a week) but as an experiment I pushed them back toward the front wall to make them flush with the plasma and sure enough the sound stage broke up. On my test track the singer was no longer firmly planted in between the two speakers and seemed to bounce back and forth between the left & right side. It definitely didn't sound as good as before when they were forward of the plasma.

So the next thing I did was to go the other way and pull them out into the room forward of the stand 6" and forward of the plasma 16". I also pulled them away from the side walls a touch more to give them a bit more room to breath. With these adjustments the speakers are 7' apart center-center and my listening position is 10' from the center of the sound stage.

Major difference from when they were flush with the plasma and even a bit of an improvement over where I had them before tonight. I need to go back and listen to some other tracks to verify but the position of the singer and everything else in the sound stage seem to be more clearly defined then before. And if nothing else moving them away from teh walls a bit more seems to have helped a bit of boomyness I was getting on some tacks.

Brad, given what I heard tonight during my experiments I would recommend that you at least try pulling your speakers forward of your desk once you get everything setup. I think you'll hear a difference...

-steve

If you put a soft cover over the plasma this MAY also help. I use a medium thichness microfiber fleece cloth. I am still deciding whether the change is for the better or not. It certainly tempers some shrillness.

 

[robertawillisjr]

I don't think that's what robertawillisjr was saying. I'm pretty sure he was suggesting that your room has a lot issues that are going to prevent speakers costing several thousand dollars (ML or any other speakers) from sounding their best, so why spend several thousand dollars on your speakers? Of course the ML system you've described is going to sound better then a Bose system but is it going to sound $7,000 or $8,000 better? Maybe not...

-steve

Exactly my point. I really think that you need a good audio person to help you decide about your room. Someone that can come to your home and take a good look. This means having to work with a dealer (if you have one in your area) or someone who is knowledgeable and is trustworthy.

 

[eknuds01]

I haven't read this thread with a lot of detail, but I don't think the layout is the end-all-be-all here.

One thing that could be considered is to maybe the move speakers out away from the proposed positions for critical listening and/or movies. That is to say, if he isn't using them, then go ahead and leave them near the corners as shown.

Then when you want to listen to music, I would simply drag them away from the walls and desk a little bit.

Yeah - this is sort of a pain to do this each and every time. But if he only listens to the setup (ciritically) for several hours/week - I would find a layout that seems reasonable (best blend of office furniture, comfortable chairs, etc) and then simply move the speakers. You could mark the ground with masking tape or maybe place little tick marks on the wall (or some other creative way of marking the listening positions) so you have the speaker placement documented.

 

[bradchatellier]

Great feedback everybody. Since I can't rightfully expect everyone to visualize my minute technical adjustments, I've modified the sample picture to show the desk reduction, the speakers being moved closer together (to about 10 feet), the seating area being moved back and the back wall being relocated. Now there is even more room for the seating area to move back and the speakers could even pull out further if necessary.

Yes I can spend several thousand dollars on wall treatments if that will make or break this design.

And yes, I hate to say it here, I am willing to go with another speaker brand if this design is too tricky for ML's to image properly in (or electrostats in general).

So with all of these changes, am I starting to reach an acceptable level of performance or not? As I've said before, the desk design is non-negotiable past what I've reduced to here, that is the anchor that the room is designed around, love it or hate it and I will adjust everything else as necessary (I already don't have a place to put a printer now, but I digress).

Thanks again for all the feedback.

 

[stevenic]

If you put a soft cover over the plasma this MAY also help. I use a medium thichness microfiber fleece cloth. I am still deciding whether the change is for the better or not. It certainly tempers some shrillness.

It's interesting you mention that because I was already thinking about that myself. It's an awful big piece of glass setting between the speakers that I can't really do anything about. I was wondering if there was a decent way to temporarily treat it when listening to music. I don't want to hijack Brads thread so I'll ask this on another thread.

-steve

 

[stevenic]

Brad, I'm not sure if the changes above will be enough to correct all of your issues (others can comment on that as I'm a newbie too) but I can tell you that these speakers have the ability to sound amazing. I've had my Vantages for a week and I've never owned (or probably even heard) speakers that sound this good. It doesn't seem possible that 2 speakers can create the 3 dimensional sound stage that they create. My GF swears I'm lying to her and that part of the sound is coming from the center but I haven't even hooked the center or surrounds up yet. I wanted to get the 2ch experience sounding good before adding the other channels.

My room setup is a little different then yours in that it's deeper at 19x12.5 and I have a bit more flexability to move stuff around. But I haven't done any room treatments and I have a big stand + plasma between the mains. I haven't even run my Denons room adjustment program yet. And still i'm super impressed. There's no way I'd trade this system for a Bose system after hearing it.

So good luck with what ever direction you decide to go...

-steve

 

[Wired]

Spire Placement Experience....FYI

I've owned my Spires for about 6mos. and have tried many placement adjustments to achieve the best sound. One of the best tweaks I made was placing wall panels behind my speakers. Huge difference in focus and bass response. Prior to purchasing a 22"tall BDI media cabinet I had a 6" tall entertainment center between my Spires. After removing it and going with the BDI unit my sound stage opened up significantly. In my opinion, based upon your diagram, you will sacrifice sound quality. There's just no way you can have the best imaging with a desk in between your speakers. The MLs will certainly sound good, but you will long for the day that you can remove the desk from the room. When that happens, you will go from good to great sound. Things to consider...how long will you really need your desk in that room? If you're building the desk, could you make the surface fold toward the wall, so when not in use, it could be collapsed?