Solid State Power Amp for Impression 11A speakers

[Cayman]

I started my ML journey circa year 2000 when I bought a pair of Aerius i speakers which I paired with a Sonic Frontiers (Anthem) EL34 based push pull tube power amp and never looked backed. Since then I have had different ML speakers including the great SL3s and five years ago upgraded to a pair of 11A speakers. I used to run these speakers with Single Ended Class A tube monoblocks (two 845 tubes driven by two 300B tubes per side).
Essentially, for the past 20+ years my MLs have been driven by tube gear of similar ilk.

Recently I moved to London and shipped the 11As here, but I sold the tube amplifiers as I was not sure if they could be transported safely (and also due to space constraints in my London apartment). At some point after moving here, I considered selling the 11As and buying a pair of Stax X9000 and go the headphone way, but some of the dealers that I have spoken with have encouraged me to give it a go with the 11As notwithstanding the constrained listening area I can afford to spare.

I have decided to re-nourish my life with the 11A goodness again, but this time I need to try SS amps (stereo or monoblock). Since I have next to no experience having driven MLs with SS electronics I highly appreciate any suggestions of a good power amp pairing.

My listening preferences and other parameters of selection are as follows:
1. Budget - USD 10K-12K (new)
2. Preferred amplification Class - Class A (Please enlighten me if this is a misplaced belief)
3. Type of music - Jazz, small ensembles, Oriental Classical, vocals
4. Listening volume: Low to moderate (Never high)
5. Listening space - Quite small (15 feet X 12 feet) - One side opening to the kitchen area
6. Front end - I will be using a single source (streamer). Therefore looking for a DAC with streamer and Volume control) (Eg: PS Audio DirectStream DAC Mk2, MSB Discrete with 2 PSU, Holo Audio May KTE with a preamp)

Thanks a lot for sharing your invaluable experience with me.

 

[ttocs]

My tube amps, Bob Latino M-125 mono, are fantastic in every way - especially the holographic soundstage - with the exception of extended highs. The high frequency drops off at around 10kHz. With Anticables ZERO Autoformers the sound remains great and extends the highs.

A few months ago I bought a Krell DUO XD 300 stereo amp. It's great!! Class A with a twist so it runs cooler. The only characteristic the tube amps still have over the DUO is the soundstage, but not by much. The Krell is equal or better in every other aspect.

You can pickup Authorized Dealer Demo units with full warranty for around $8k-ish.

 

[codesx100]

If you want pure class A, pretty much a top end Krell or Pass Labs.

Some alternatives if you don't mind venturing outside of pure class A.

1. Class A/B - a pair of Simaudio 400Ms. Simaudio matches really well with MLs.

2. Hybrid Tube Class D - PS Audio M1200

 

[Cayman]

My tube amps, Bob Latino M-125 mono, are fantastic in every way - especially the holographic soundstage - with the exception of extended highs. The high frequency drops off at around 10kHz. With Anticables ZERO Autoformers the sound remains great and extends the highs.

A few months ago I bought a Krell DUO XD 300 stereo amp. It's great!! Class A with a twist so it runs cooler. The only characteristic the tube amps still have over the DUO is the soundstage, but not by much. The Krell is equal or better in every other aspect.

You can pickup Authorized Dealer Demo units with full warranty for around $8k-ish.

Thank you very much ttocs.

 

[Cayman]

If you want pure class A, pretty much a top end Krell or Pass Labs.

Some alternatives if you don't mind venturing outside of pure class A.

1. Class A/B - a pair of Simaudio 400Ms. Simaudio matches really well with MLs.

2. Hybrid Tube Class D - PS Audio M1200

Thank you very much codesx100.

I have been suggested by a dealer to go with Pass XA30.8 stereo or XA60.8 monoblock amps. Any idea if these would be a good fit?

 

[ttocs]

What are the dimensions of your room?

 

[Don Quichotte]

In addition to what I've written here Integrated amp advice for ML , I'd like to add that I had the chance to directly compare the Accuphase E-370 (class AB as well as significantly cheaper) and the the E-600 (class A or so they claim) - but on some dynamic speakers that I know well, not on electrostats. The E-600 made a sound that was better organised, more refined, with better separation, the bass went lower and was better controled and more detailed. The E-370, though, seemed more dynamic, with more attractive highs (myabe better extended or simply stronger, I don't remember exactly), perhaps more open in the mids and overall felt more like it was playing with joy, so to speak. In the end I bought the E-470 (also class AB). My point is that I'm not sure that class A should always be considered "better" by default, I think synergy (including with the room and the cables!) and taste are more important.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Thank you very much codesx100.

I have been suggested by a dealer to go with Pass XA30.8 stereo or XA60.8 monoblock amps. Any idea if these would be a good fit?

Most definitely 110% !
I've auditioned the full Pass Labs line up on the full Masterpiece series line, including the Neoliths, superb match!

Although Pass Labs also designs Class AB, their Class A bias operation on their pure Class A designs are outstanding! Really in a class of its own.

The only thing I would highly recommend is that partnering the Pass Labs gear with a tube front end was the most musical combination, for me at least. Some of the DACs used in those setups had top of the line Lampizator tube DACs and DCS DACs, really top end gear.

As I've said many times before, partner ML stats with mediocre gear and that's what you get... partner them with top end gear, and they perform on another dimension!

Cheers, and all the best!
Wool! RJ

 

[codesx100]

Thank you very much codesx100.

I have been suggested by a dealer to go with Pass XA30.8 stereo or XA60.8 monoblock amps. Any idea if these would be a good fit?

Grab the XA60.8s and call it a day. Probably be the last amps you need to buy.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

In order of personal preference on SS amplifiers:

Dartzeel
Pass Labs
Vitus audio
Classe Delta's
Momentums

That's my personal top five of all time, each one has its strengths and attributes. However, like I said they were all partnered with top end line-stage preamps.

At the end though, it really doesn't matter if it's class A, AB, D, X y or z... as long as you're enjoying the music!
It's a personal preference but all these amplifiers do make a remarkable difference in performance levels compared to the ordinary gear... just my 50cts worth!

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[Cayman]

What are the dimensions of your room?

15 feet X 12 feet - One side opening in to the kitchen area along the longer axis.

 

[Cayman]

In addition to what I've written here Integrated amp advice for ML , I'd like to add that I had the chance to directly compare the Accuphase E-370 (class AB as well as significantly cheaper) and the the E-600 (class A or so they claim) - but on some dynamic speakers that I know well, not on electrostats. The E-600 made a sound that was better organised, more refined, with better separation, the bass went lower and was better controled and more detailed. The E-370, though, seemed more dynamic, with more attractive highs (myabe better extended or simply stronger, I don't remember exactly), perhaps more open in the mids and overall felt more like it was playing with joy, so to speak. In the end I bought the E-470 (also class AB). My point is that I'm not sure that class A should always be considered "better" by default, I think synergy (including with the room and the cables!) and taste are more important.

Thank you very much Don for your advice.

To be honest, the issue I have with all Japanese High-end brands (Accuphase, Luxman and Esoteric et al) are that brand new sealed pieces are parallelly imported to the UK (and I assume this would be the same for US as well) at exactly half the price we pay for the European or the North American voltage. These equipment are sold in Japan (set to Japanese voltage of 100V) at really low prices and I cannot agree and support that kind of business practices. I think it is unfair to charge us twice as much simply because we live in a different part of the world.

 

[Robert D]

Thank you very much Don for your advice.

To be honest, the issue I have with all Japanese High-end brands (Accuphase, Luxman and Esoteric et al) are that brand new sealed pieces are parallelly imported to the UK (and I assume this would be the same for US as well) at exactly half the price we pay for the European or the North American voltage. These equipment are sold in Japan (set to Japanese voltage of 100V) at really low prices and I cannot agree and support that kind of business practices. I think it is unfair to charge us twice as much simply because we live in a different part of the world.

Is much of that cost import fees or some kind of tariff placed on Japanese goods? Just wondering. I know Australia has really high fees.

 

[Cayman]

Most definitely 110% !
I've auditioned the full Pass Labs line up on the full Masterpiece series line, including the Neoliths, superb match!

Although Pass Labs also designs Class AB, their Class A bias operation on their pure Class A designs are outstanding! Really in a class of its own.

The only thing I would highly recommend is that partnering the Pass Labs gear with a tube front end was the most musical combination, for me at least. Some of the DACs used in those setups had top of the line Lampizator tube DACs and DCS DACs, really top end gear.

As I've said many times before, partner ML stats with mediocre gear and that's what you get... partner them with top end gear, and they perform on another dimension!

Cheers, and all the best!
Wool! RJ

Thank you very much Big Dog for sharing your first hand experience. Pass XA series is definitely on my shortlist.

With regards to tube front end, I am going to give it a try without a preamp first (by adhering to DACs that do not drop bits to attenuate the volume - such as the PS Audio offering which attenuate volume by dropping the rail voltage instead of bits). Thanks again for your support.

 

[Cayman]

Grab the XA60.8s and call it a day. Probably be the last amps you need to buy.

Thank you once again!

 

[Cayman]

In order of personal preference on SS amplifiers:

Dartzeel
Pass Labs
Vitus audio
Classe Delta's
Momentums

That's my personal top five of all time, each one has its strengths and attributes. However, like I said they were all partnered with top end line-stage preamps.

At the end though, it really doesn't matter if it's class A, AB, D, X y or z... as long as you're enjoying the music!
It's a personal preference but all these amplifiers do make a remarkable difference in performance levels compared to the ordinary gear... just my 50cts worth!

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

Thank you again for your suggestions. Incidentally, I have listened to Vitus RI-101 Mk2 with Magico A3 and was mighty impressed with that Class AB amp. I have arranged with a dealer up North to listen to 13As with Vitus RS-101 (same amp as the one I listened to, but without the line amplifier) and looking forward to this experience.

 

[Cayman]

Is much of that cost import fees or some kind of tariff placed on Japanese goods? Just wondering. I know Australia has really high fees.

In the UK 20% VAT applies to all electronic imports across the board, so it cannot be just the import fees.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Damn, that's a shame. Parallel imports on those brands and setting voltages to 100V... what a shabby business!
Not sure what the import structures are like in the US but I really didn't know this sort of thing happened in the UK. I thought customs would be more strict and regulated.

Down unda, we have very very strict laws, and Aus Border Force is across it on all angles. If you do try to parallel import (which does happen from time to time but seldom), there's absolutely no warranty nor service support. Plus, the importer of that brand wouldn't touch it! On top of that, when the item passes through customs, they check on whether there's a local importer representing the brand. If there is one then they slam heavy duties to such an affect, you're better off purchasing locally directly from the importer or dealers. It's basically a stupid thing to do, even though there are a few cases and they've not ended well.

I know of one chap who does this quite often through a local contact via a third party in HK. I'm not even sure if the gear is legit to begin with... no warranty, no service support and not even an owners manual! The packing looks original though but I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole, even though the items cost less than half! Sometimes...

I purchased my Esoteric digital gear directly from the Aus importer, with full warranty and service, brand new. The best part is, once you want to trade-up, they're willing to trade-in the older gear for very reasonable cost. The difference for upgrades is well within reach, if I opted to do so.

Same goes with my Conrad johnson importer / dealer, I've known them since 2004/05 and have always upgraded every CJ unit I've had this way. It's just more practical, far more cost effective and the right thing to do. When I ran my own dealership many years ago, we were faced with a boat load of parallel imports from Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam. It was really difficult to keep up but the good thing was, every item that came into our service centre was checked on serial number. If it didn't register at HQ of the parent company, we'd just drop it like a hot potato! None of my techies wanted to touch them. Fair enough!

Hope the demo with the Vitus goes well. The one I auditioned was a huge Class AB stereo amp, that can be selected for either Class settings. Ah! I remember the model SS- 103, superb! It drove both the 11A and 13A effortlessly. Brilliant work!

Cheers, RJ

 

[Robert D]

In the UK 20% VAT applies to all electronic imports across the board, so it cannot be just the import fees.

Ok, so the country of origin makes no difference? Everything gets a 20% tax? I sure am glad we don't have that in the US. 20% is huge.

So in the UK, it does sound like the Japanese brands are price gouging. Id be just like you and not support them!

 

[Robert D]

Damn, that's a shame. Parallel imports on those brands and setting voltages to 100V... what a shabby business!
Not sure what the import structures are like in the US but I really didn't know this sort of thing happened in the UK. I thought customs would be more strict and regulated.

Down unda, we have very very strict laws, and Aus Border Force is across it on all angles. If you do try to parallel import (which does happen from time to time but seldom), there's absolutely no warranty nor service support. Plus, the importer of that brand wouldn't touch it! On top of that, when the item passes through customs, they check on whether there's a local importer representing the brand. If there is one then they slam heavy duties to such an affect, you're better off purchasing locally directly from the importer or dealers. It's basically a stupid thing to do, even though there are a few cases and they've not ended well.

I know of one chap who does this quite often through a local contact via a third party in HK. I'm not even sure if the gear is legit to begin with... no warranty, no service support and not even an owners manual! The packing looks original though but I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole, even though the items cost less than half! Sometimes...

I purchased my Esoteric digital gear directly from the Aus importer, with full warranty and service, brand new. The best part is, once you want to trade-up, they're willing to trade-in the older gear for very reasonable cost. The difference for upgrades is well within reach, if I opted to do so.

Same goes with my Conrad johnson importer / dealer, I've known them since 2004/05 and have always upgraded every CJ unit I've had this way. It's just more practical, far more cost effective and the right thing to do. When I ran my own dealership many years ago, we were faced with a boat load of parallel imports from Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam. It was really difficult to keep up but the good thing was, every item that came into our service centre was checked on serial number. If it didn't register at HQ of the parent company, we'd just drop it like a hot potato! None of my techies wanted to touch them. Fair enough!

Hope the demo with the Vitus goes well. The one I auditioned was a huge Class AB stereo amp, that can be selected for either Class settings. Ah! I remember the model SS- 103, superb! It drove both the 11A and 13A effortlessly. Brilliant work!

Cheers, RJ

So, if you compare the price of something like this Pass amp that's $14,900 in the US, how much would it cost for you to buy in Australia?

https://www.overtureav.com/brands/audio/power-amplifiers/pass-labs-amplifiers/pass-labs-x350-8/