Soliciting input on my planned HT system

[Reverb2009]

Actually it is that thread that is giving me the heartburn, specifically tsd's comments of a Theater ii

"There is another prototype that is bigger, with a larger X-Stat and 3 tweeters like the current model. Its basically the Theater i with a new X-Stat panel of similar size. This unit blows away the Theater i.

However this unit would likely cost around $3,500"

The ML reps I spoke to said nothing of a Theater ii. They told me the Stage was still underperforming and would come out positioned between the Theater i and Cinema i. I specifically asked them what I should do and they said go with the Theater... Were they just trying to dump product or were they giving me the straight goods? I would hope the latter.

I too have asked about a Theater II and was told there is no Theater II in the works, only the Stage.

It sounds like ML is telling the truth there is no Theater II, but they did not tell you there is two versions of the Stage and both may get released. That I can believe.

 

[68sting]

I don't mean to hi jack this thread but I had been thinking of changing my Aerius i's out for scripts in the rears. I presently have scrips as my 7.1 channels and Aerius i's for rears. All scripts would fit the room better.
Any thoughts? Also a single rear would work better than the two I have now. Would I miss much with 6.1 vs. 7.1?

 

[tsd2005]

TSD 2005 you suggested using a stereo tube amp for the fronts and a Diva SS for the rest. Aren't there going to be gain and tonality issues when you mix and match like that?

One another note - the more I read on this board about the upcoming Stage the more uncertain I am about the Theater. Does anyone have any inside information that would contradict what I was told - that the Stage will not significantly outperform the Theater in the near future?

For stereo listening the tube amp will make the summits soar, specifically the VTL which Gale and ML love to match with the big MLs.

For movie listening you won't notice a big difference. I personally use a VTL tube amp for my fronts and a Theta Digital surround amp for my surrounds. My system sounds absolutely amazing, and I wouldn't trade it out (well maybe for the VTL mono Sigfrieds).

The Stage that was originally mentioned way back was intended to replace both the Theater and the Cinema priced in between. It never made it to market because it didn't outperform the Theater.

So it hasn't been put on the market.

 

[tsd2005]

I too have asked about a Theater II and was told there is no Theater II in the works, only the Stage.

It sounds like ML is telling the truth there is no Theater II, but they did not tell you there is two versions of the Stage and both may get released. That I can believe.

I never referred to a Theater ii. I mentioned two prototypes for the Stage that could end up on the market.

ML has been notorious for denying new product. I've had clients that called Martin Logan making sure the Aerius wasn't going to be replaced like the other models had been anytime soon. ML said "no," and they also told one of our salespeople the same thing.

They announced the Aeon the day after he received his product. We accepted the return, but learned a lesson that day about ML and new product.

While ML says they have no plans for a "Theater ii," they do have plans to replace all their old Stats. The Prodigy and Odyssey were replaced by the Summit. The Ascent by the Vantage. Now the Aeon by the Vista. The Clarity, Script, Theater, and Cinema are going to be replaced within the next 6 to 18 months.

Will the Stage be the Cinema replacement and not the Theater replacement?

Possibly.

I figure that ML doesn't want to replace the bottom line center vs their top of the line first.

However who knows. I do know that the "Stage," will not be released and be "in between," the two current units in their lineup. It will replace one of the two or both.

 

[Reverb2009]

I never referred to a Theater ii. I mentioned two prototypes for the Stage that could end up on the market.

ML has been notorious for denying new product. I've had clients that called Martin Logan making sure the Aerius wasn't going to be replaced like the other models had been anytime soon. ML said "no," and they also told one of our salespeople the same thing.

They announced the Aeon the day after he received his product. We accepted the return, but learned a lesson that day about ML and new product.

While ML says they have no plans for a "Theater ii," they do have plans to replace all their old Stats. The Prodigy and Odyssey were replaced by the Summit. The Ascent by the Vantage. Now the Aeon by the Vista. The Clarity, Script, Theater, and Cinema are going to be replaced within the next 6 to 18 months.

Will the Stage be the Cinema replacement and not the Theater replacement?

Possibly.

I figure that ML doesn't want to replace the bottom line center vs their top of the line first.

However who knows. I do know that the "Stage," will not be released and be "in between," the two current units in their lineup. It will replace one of the two or both.

That post was not directed at you, but a replay to Eye Candy.

Go back and read Eye Candy’s post (one above mine), then read my post. It should then make sense to you. We were only using Theater II as a way to differentiate the two stage prototypes.

There is another prototype that is bigger, with a larger X-Stat and 3 tweeters like the current model. Its basically the Theater i with a new X-Stat panel of similar size.

 

[Eye Candy]

Thanks

TSD, what you say about the center makes a whole lot of sense even if it is slightly at odds with my conversation with ML (who said it would be in between). Maybe I will run a phantom center for now until the dust settles.

TSD did you have to match the gain and tonality between your amps?

You also mentioned that mounting the Scripts on an acoustical surface made a world of difference. There are a myriad of different treatments out there. What did you use? What about something like this?

http://www.controlnoise.com/fabricpanel.html

 

[tsd2005]

That post was not directed at you, but a replay to Eye Candy.

Go back and read Eye Candy’s post (one above mine), then read my post. It should then make sense to you. We were only using Theater II as a way to differentiate the two stage prototypes.

I just wanted to clarify that I did not say a "Theater ii," was in the pipeline. Of course ML would deny it. As it is they're VERY wishy washy with any questions about "Stage."

 

[tsd2005]

TSD, what you say about the center makes a whole lot of sense even if it is slightly at odds with my conversation with ML (who said it would be in between). Maybe I will run a phantom center for now until the dust settles.

TSD did you have to match the gain and tonality between your amps?

You also mentioned that mounting the Scripts on an acoustical surface made a world of difference. There are a myriad of different treatments out there. What did you use? What about something like this?

http://www.controlnoise.com/fabricpanel.html

I didn't have to do anything with my amps. 1. Stereo music only uses the VTL. 2. Movie listening, I can't hear anything "bad," with the setup. It sounds amazing to me. Now remember that most of the information comes from the Center in a movie soundtrack. So the Dreadnaught II is doing that work for my system. The front stage has never sounded bad at all. 3. I don't listen to multichannel music. I've tried it and been unimpressed.

All the acoustical work we do in homes is designed inhouse by our acoustical expert or by Acoustic Innovations. 33% of the time we get our panels from AI, and the rest we make ourselves.

AI is good at designing the acoustical aspects of your room based on your equipment and has been great at supplying us perfect placement spots. However that generally goes for our customers that spend a lot of money.

You can get panels by themselves from them. I'd have a basic idea of what to suggest with your room dimensions.

 

[Robin]

HT Recommendations...

Mike,

Your room treatments are extremely important, as you know. Your HT room's sound treatment will be as key, as how you place your speakers. The SMS-1 by Velodyn to control bass levels in your HT room might be a prudent consideration as well.

I like your proposed list of speakers, though I would consider Script i's x4 for surround and rears.
IMHO, for pre/pro (that's if your budget can handle it), I would recommend he Anthem Statement D2. For power amplifier I would recommend the Anthem Statement P5, with Tubed mono blocks (for the Summits) to drive your HT system...

Good Luck on your audio quest...

 

[Eye Candy]

I checked out the pics of your setup Robin - that's nuts!!!

I started out with major research on the D2, P5, Signature series (I am Canadian) route prior to my arrival at the Arcam / ML system. The D2 (sonically the same as the D1) will be a great product however I don't believe it can match the AV9 for musicality. The P5 brings a lot to the table and I have thought about it before. With powered subs in the Summits I don't know if all the power the Anthem piece brings the table is necessary.

More recently tsd has made me think about pairing a diva 1000 with a VTL however the reviews for the DIVA have not been as stellar as for the fmj P7. The fmj would likely pair better with the AV9. But your idea of the P5 with the VTL is rather interesting.

In response to TSD's reply above. I do see your point of most of the sound coming from the fronts and the center channel. It was the gain discrepancy between the center and the fronts I was concerned with. Obviously, it works for you so it can't be a big issue. Now I have to see if there is room in my budget for the VTL.

Oh and by the way. It is reassuring that there are so many guys out there with Script i x 4 setup that are happy. The room we auditioned must not have had the surrounds setup properly.

I will look into the SMS-1.

Cheers

 

[Reverb2009]

I checked out the pics of your setup Robin - that's nuts!!!

I started out with major research on the D2, P5, Signature series (I am Canadian) route prior to my arrival at the Arcam / ML system. The D2 (sonically the same as the D1) will be a great product however I don't believe it can match the AV9 for musicality. The P5 brings a lot to the table and I have thought about it before. With powered subs in the Summits I don't know if all the power the Anthem piece brings the table is necessary.

More recently tsd has made me think about pairing a diva 1000 with a VTL however the reviews for the DIVA have not been as stellar as for the fmj P7. The fmj would likely pair better with the AV9. But your idea of the P5 with the VTL is rather interesting.

In response to TSD's reply above. I do see your point of most of the sound coming from the fronts and the center channel. It was the gain discrepancy between the center and the fronts I was concerned with. Obviously, it works for you so it can't be a big issue. Now I have to see if there is room in my budget for the VTL.

Oh and by the way. It is reassuring that there are so many guys out there with Script i x 4 setup that are happy. The room we auditioned must not have had the surrounds setup properly.

I will look into the SMS-1.

Cheers

Eye Candy,

From what I have been told, yes the AV9 is more musical then the D1/2 but is less powerful (processing wise) and less features. The P5 is a grate amp, but is overkill power wise for the Vantage and summit. I recently read a review of the Blue Circle BC38 HT amp, and the reviewer had said he recently tried the anthem P5 and found the two amps similar in sound but the BC38 was a little more open and musical sounding. If I were looking for an amp for the summit or vantage I would be looking for a lower powered musical sounding amp.

 

[Eye Candy]

Script trim

I plan to get the Summits in dark cherry with black aluminum (silver looks cool but would probably be distracting). Black scripts would look fine but I wondered about the white bronze. Does anyone think the white bronze would go better than black with the dark cherry?

 

[tsd2005]

Mike,

Your room treatments are extremely important, as you know. Your HT room's sound treatment will be as key, as how you place your speakers. The SMS-1 by Velodyn to control bass levels in your HT room might be a prudent consideration as well.

I like your proposed list of speakers, though I would consider Script i's x4 for surround and rears.
IMHO, for pre/pro (that's if your budget can handle it), I would recommend he Anthem Statement D2. For power amplifier I would recommend the Anthem Statement P5, with Tubed mono blocks (for the Summits) to drive your HT system...

Good Luck on your audio quest...

We compared the D1 with AV8 not long ago. The AV8 blew the D1 out of the water in both music and movie playback. I've only witnessed better sound from Theta and Meridian for movies.

I'd really consider the Fresco over the Script as placement is so much easier. Properly placed Scripts will sound better, but it is no where near as easy to place.

 

[Reverb2009]

We compared the D1 with AV8 not long ago. The AV8 blew the D1 out of the water in both music and movie playback. I've only witnessed better sound from Theta and Meridian for movies.

What amp was used for the comparison?

 

[Eye Candy]

Thanks tsd

I hear you on the Fresco's tsd. Luckily I have a great local guy who has promised to help me with setting up the Scripts. The Fresco's are probably easier and more bang for the buck but I think the Scripts will deliver more overall and look cooler so I am willing to risk the setup hassle.