Setup Music Streamer Server

[Audioseduction]

I wanted to get my feet wet with the music streamer playback with minimum out of pocket funds. If I like I will invest in a very highend one in the near future. Below is the make up of it. So far It sounds great! :music:

I'm using dBpoweramp to rip my CDs to flac uncompress. Also it's all 5GHz wireless and does not skip a beat at all! Temp storage is a desktop PC in my office with a 1TB for now.

Toshiba Laptop/Vista OS
Player is foobar2000
External DAC is the HRT Music Streamer II USB
MOTOROLA XOOM Android Tablet
Realvnc server on laptop and client on the tablet
A pair of Vampire RCA I had laying around for years.

 

[churchill]

George, it looks like a good start to me! I'm using a squeezebox fed into my W4S DAC with great results.

 

[amey01]

Looks great! I'm sure you'll love it and it will change the way you use your music. The advantage of the Squeezebox (and other dedicated streaming devices) is that you can get the laptop (and its noisy Hard disk and fan, etc) out of your listening room!

 

[gordonmenninger]

I agree with the other ones above - Just get a Squeezebox for a few hundred bucks and call it a day! So much easier, superb quality, no clumsy laptop interface etc...:rocker:

 

[Dan Osib]

I agree with the other ones above - Just get a Squeezebox for a few hundred bucks and call it a day! So much easier, superb quality, no clumsy laptop interface etc...:rocker:

I disagree. If you go with a Squeezebox (as good as it is) you won't be able to stream movies/video from the internet or store them on the Squeezebox's hard drive memory. Sticking with a Laptop or Tablet PC means you are able to do this. However if you are just interested in music only then buy a Squeezebox.

 

[JonFo]

For stereo only, a Squeezbox is fine.

But for multichannel FLAC's (iTrax and DVD-A rips), one must use a PC + HDMI-equipped processor + foobar2000.

I use that setup with great success for my 40-odd DVD-A rips. Very convenient and future-proofs my music investment.

Another thing I do with FooBar is to apply re-sampling (to 88.2) to minimize jitter effects on regular CD rips.

George, nice setup you have there.

 

[sleepysurf]

George, welcome to computer audio! Can your (temporary) setup play back higher-res tracks (24/96 or higher)? Given the transparency of your overall setup, you ought to check out some high-res stuff, and see if you can appreciate the difference. Unfortunately, SOME high-res material is no better (sometimes even worse) than Redbook CD.

 

[Audioseduction]

I should have a referance playback music streamer configured by next week. Not cheap! The one above was just for test purpose only.

 

[amey01]

Another thing I do with FooBar is to apply re-sampling (to 88.2) to minimize jitter effects on regular CD rips.

How does that work?

 

[Dan Osib]

I should have a referance playback music streamer configured by next week. Not cheap! The one above was just for test purpose only.

What streamer are you getting or going with?

 

[shakham]

I'm using a couple of airport express. They do wireless-N. You use your iphone or ipad to control them. You could also use your laptop running itunes as the controller if you want.

You can stream music from:
any itunes computer(s),
the library on your iphone/ipad
even youtube (and some other apps) on your iphone/ipad.

What's also cool is any friends come over with an iphone/ipad can stream on your setup directly (well..you need to give them wifi access).

Each airport express can be setup as their own zone, and each zone has independent volume control. You can either connect a standard RCA connection to your amp, or you can use an optical link which then gives you flexibility on the DAC.

I'm not sure how it compares in terms of sound quality to the other solutions that you guys are discussing. All in all I'm extremely happy with the setup.

 

[Audioseduction]

I'll have all the details when I have the final Music Server setup this weekend.

 

[Dan Osib]

I'll have all the details when I have the final Music Server setup this weekend.

I'm doing exactly the same thing as yourself, however as well as Reference level music I also want to stream Reference level movies via a Media Server. OK this it what I have learned so far, the range of Apple Mac computers provides some of the most transparent sounds for music you will hear anywhere - FULL STOP. As long as you connect it to a really good USB DAC or a really good USB to SPDIF converter (TRENDS AUDIO UB-10) you will achieve a phenomenal sound to rival the finest CD players available.

 

[amey01]

the range of Apple Mac computers provides some of the most transparent sounds for music you will hear anywhere - FULL STOP.

Is the data that comes out of a Mac computer better in some way? Do the Word documents contain less spelling errors too? Am I likely to see errors in my bank account balance if the bank isn't using Apple Macs?

Let's get this straight - data is data. Getting data right is what computers do, and have done so since the dawn of technology.

Until that data is clocked (by a Squeezebox, Asychronous DAC, sound card, etc.) it is identical! After it has been clocked then yes - it ceases being data and becomes data + an analogous time signature, so there can certainly be differences. But that's got everything to do with the clocking device (and subsequent digital chain like cables, etc) and nothing to do with the pure data storage prior to clocking, such as networking, memory, processor, operating system, disk drive, or even the manufacturer of the shiny case that holds all these components together.

 

[Dan Osib]

Is the data that comes out of a Mac computer better in some way? Do the Word documents contain less spelling errors too? Am I likely to see errors in my bank account balance if the bank isn't using Apple Macs?

Let's get this straight - data is data. Getting data right is what computers do, and have done so since the dawn of technology.

Until that data is clocked (by a Squeezebox, Asychronous DAC, sound card, etc.) it is identical! After it has been clocked then yes - it ceases being data and becomes data + an analogous time signature, so there can certainly be differences. But that's got everything to do with the clocking device (and subsequent digital chain like cables, etc) and nothing to do with the pure data storage prior to clocking, such as networking, memory, processor, operating system, disk drive, or even the manufacturer of the shiny case that holds all these components together.

I have to admit that I'm new in this territory. Going back to the subject of Computer Streaming movies and music. So are you saying that I will hear the same level of Sound Transparency using my 8 year old Toshiba breezeblock laptop connected to my Tact digital DAC/preamp as I would from connecting a Premium quality Apple Mac Mini to my Tact DAC/preamp? I am reluctant to believe this would be possible.

 

[amey01]

I have to admit that I'm new in this territory. Going back to the subject of Computer Streaming movies and music. So are you saying that I will hear the same level of Sound Transparency using my 8 year old Toshiba breezeblock laptop connected to my Tact digital DAC/preamp as I would from connecting a Premium quality Apple Mac Mini to my Tact DAC/preamp? I am reluctant to believe this would be possible.

It depends on how you have it connected, because I'm not familiar with the TacT. If you are using asynchronous USB (that is, the TacT is buffering and clocking the data), or using a network LAN or Wi-Fi connection to the TacT, or an intermediary such as a Squeezebox or Asynchronous USB --> S/PDIF converter then - yes - the old Toshiba will provide IDENTICAL data as a shiny new Mac.

If you are not using one of the above options then you are not exploiting the DAC to its full potential, no matter what sort of computer you are using. The only way you could really be doing that is if you are using a direct S/PDIF output from the PC, or if the USB connection is not asynchronous. Unlikely for a high-end device. We will also assume that we are working within the limits of the USB bus interface - some USB buses are limited in the amount of data they can handle (eg. More than 16/44.1). It is for this reason that I prefer to use a Squeezebox, but any network or wi-fi connection will give the same results.

I am reluctant to believe this would be possible.

So then......try it and see! I almost guarantee you won't hear a difference. And if you could extract the bits being presented to the TacT clock, they would be identical too. Just like my post here on MLOC will be identical, whether you read it on the Toshiba or the Mac - your music data too, will be identical.

 

[Dan Osib]

It depends on how you have it connected, because I'm not familiar with the TacT. If you are using asynchronous USB (that is, the TacT is buffering and clocking the data), or using a network LAN or Wi-Fi connection to the TacT, or an intermediary such as a Squeezebox or Asynchronous USB --> S/PDIF converter then - yes - the old Toshiba will provide IDENTICAL data as a shiny new Mac.

If you are not using one of the above options then you are not exploiting the DAC to its full potential, no matter what sort of computer you are using.

A very interesting response. So basically what your saying is that the sound quality (level of transparency) will be exactly the same no matter what computer I use, the only thing that decides what it sounds like is the USB-SPDIF converter and the hifi system it goes into.
So basically I can use any beat up piece of sh!t computer (desktop or laptop) or a MAC MINI which are plugged into the same converters/hifi and hear the same sound. I don't think you've convinced me here, because JITTER levels are different in each PC and Apple computer and this factor will definitely affect the sound quality. A computer with HIGH JITTER levels will sound different to a computer with LOW JITTER levels.

 

[amey01]

A very interesting response. So basically what your saying is that the sound quality (level of transparency) will be exactly the same no matter what computer I use, the only thing that decides what it sounds like is the USB-SPDIF converter and the hifi system it goes into.

Yes, correct.......

So basically I can use any beat up piece of sh!t computer

Yes, you can. In fact, I did. My first Squeezebox server was an old Pentium II IBM Netfinity 5500........it worked just fine.

(desktop or laptop) or a MAC MINI which are plugged into the same converters/hifi and hear the same sound. I don't think you've convinced me here, because JITTER levels are different in each PC and Apple computer and this factor will definitely affect the sound quality. A computer with HIGH JITTER levels will sound different to a computer with LOW JITTER levels.

Okay - first you need to know what jitter is. Jitter is a timing error - it affects clocked data. It doesn't affect the audio data sitting in your computer any more than it affects your Word documents or your internet banking.

That is why I say that after clocking, yes - you may hear differences. But data in a computer is not clocked - it is simply data. The clocking is done by the DAC, S/PDIF converter, Squeezebox, etc. Can you hear differences depending on what sort of hard disk you use? Do you think improvements in sound quality await when Intel releases their next generation of CPUs? Of course not! Granted, a computer is not an accurate device for clocking audio data - Apple mac or otherwise. That is why audiophiles generally buy specialist devices for computer audio.

So in summary - if you ask a computer to do something for which it was never designed (make music) then yes - you might have issues. And yes - the Apple Mac might be better. But if you use it as designed (as a pure data storage device), handing off the audio tasks off to a specialist audiophile device then it doesn't matter what computer you use.

A computer with HIGH JITTER levels will sound different to a computer with LOW JITTER levels.

The computer will have N/A, NULL jitter levels. Jitter doesn't exist in unclocked data. It is just data storage and file serving.

 

[Dan Osib]

Yes, correct.......



Yes, you can. In fact, I did. My first Squeezebox server was an old Pentium II IBM Netfinity 5500........it worked just fine.



Okay - first you need to know what jitter is. Jitter is a timing error - it affects clocked data. It doesn't affect the audio data sitting in your computer any more than it affects your Word documents or your internet banking.

That is why I say that after clocking, yes - you may hear differences. But data in a computer is not clocked - it is simply data. The clocking is done by the DAC, S/PDIF converter, Squeezebox, etc. Can you hear differences depending on what sort of hard disk you use? Do you think improvements in sound quality await when Intel releases their next generation of CPUs? Of course not! Granted, a computer is not an accurate device for clocking audio data - Apple mac or otherwise. That is why audiophiles generally buy specialist devices for computer audio.

So in summary - if you ask a computer to do something for which it was never designed (make music) then yes - you might have issues. And yes - the Apple Mac might be better. But if you use it as designed (as a pure data storage device), handing off the audio tasks off to a specialist audiophile device then it doesn't matter what computer you use.



The computer will have N/A, NULL jitter levels. Jitter doesn't exist in unclocked data. It is just data storage and file serving.

Thanks for the interesting response. For the base computer I would need something with a silent internal fan for a start because a noisy fan would be a definite distraction when listening to music or watching movies. The other thing is that it has got to sit on top of my isolation equipment rack along with the rest of my hifi equipment so a bulky desktop PC would be too large and ugly, I mean I want to impress the visitors. A small netbook computer could be an ideal candidate as long as it has an silent fan so I'm tempted with one of these, unfortunately because I'm going to be constantly streaming media from the net, Windows based PC's are prone to Viruses so I'll need to run the virus checking software a couple of times every day plus purchase/renew the Virus Software every 6 months (Approx $100 each time because I live in the UK and I prefer Norton 360). Running it temporarily slows down the computer too so that's another no no. This is where the MAC MINI comes in because it's tiny and would look great on the hifi rack. The internal fan is virtually silent, and plenty of connections on the rear. Finally Apple Mac's don't get virus's so the MAC MINI is at the top of my list. Oh not to forget that you can store as much info on the hard drive and it doesn't slow down, whereas PC's do slowdown here. Any suggestions for an alternative computer would be great.

 

[|Tch0rT|]

^^^ Are you serious? :ROFL:

The other thing is that it has got to sit on top of my isolation equipment rack along with the rest of my hifi equipment so a bulky desktop PC would be too large and ugly, I mean I want to impress the visitors.

Ever heard of miniITX? Super small not to mention there's plenty of PC cases out there so you can get the exact look you want. Impressing visitors? It's all about what you want not them.

unfortunately because I'm going to be constantly streaming media from the net, Windows based PC's are prone to Viruses so I'll need to run the virus checking software a couple of times every day plus purchase/renew the Virus Software every 6 months (Approx $100 each time because I live in the UK and I prefer Norton 360). Running it temporarily slows down the computer too so that's another no no.

If you build just a media server you don't really have to worry about viruses. They aren't "prone" to them either. You actively have to do something to get a virus. Who buys anti-virus software?! Microsoft Security Essentials works just fine, there's other alternatives like AVG as well. Yeah the anti-virus scan can slow down a computer but this isn't 1995 anymore, any halfway modern system will have no problem running anti-virus software while running any multitudes of other software. Music playing programs aren't really that CPU intensive.

Finally Apple Mac's don't get virus's so the MAC MINI is at the top of my list.

LOL http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/10/03/mac-malware-history/

Oh not to forget that you can store as much info on the hard drive and it doesn't slow down, whereas PC's do slowdown here. Any suggestions for an alternative computer would be great.

Um an OS drive will slow down if it gets too full. A media drive won't.

Where do you get your info on stuff?! I think I got some swamp land, bridges, and magic audiophile rocks to sell you. :devil: