Setting Correct Frequency Range

[ejspain]

I have the Impression 11As. Their frequency range is 29–23,000 Hz ±3dB and a 300Hz crossover frequency. I'm using the MultEQ Editor App for room calibration and wanted to know if anyone has had good success? Particularly when it comes to setting the frequency range. With the default measurement, MultEQ measures the entire spectrum (20Hz - 20kHz). Here is where you have an opportunity to leave as is or adjust and say, I only want to EQ between 300 - 500hz or somewhere in "Schroeder Frequency range 100 - 200hz)". Has anyone experimented with this? If so, what's been your result?

 

[msimanyi]

Calling @ttocs! His experience is with Dirac as opposed to MultEQ, but he has tested limiting the DSP frequency range and running it full spectrum, and may be able to offer a useful opinion for you.

 

[ttocs]

Calling @ttocs!

Heeeeers Scotty!

I've used Dirac for limiting the corrected frequency range to less than 400-ish Hz. I never limited anything below 300Hz because I wanted all of that to be smoothed out. Dirac has always done a good job with the frequencies in the low region, unlike MSO which has never sounded great and often can simply squash all the life out of the bass when allowed to do what it wants.

So yeah, I've limited the frequency range to just above the crossover of the 13A to as much as 500Hz until about a year ago. Periodically I would check how Dirac would handle full range with some of the version updates, which is how I found out that Dirac finally was able to correct full range and sound great about a year ago. I've been letting Dirac correct full range ever since. It's Dirac Live version 3.3.3 that I still use now, even though there have been updates, some of the last ones have had some issues and are not recommended for usage until some fixes come along.

 

[ejspain]

Heeeeers Scotty!

I've used Dirac for limiting the corrected frequency range to less than 400-ish Hz. I never limited anything below 300Hz because I wanted all of that to be smoothed out. Dirac has always done a good job with the frequencies in the low region, unlike MSO which has never sounded great and often can simply squash all the life out of the bass when allowed to do what it wants.

So yeah, I've limited the frequency range to just above the crossover of the 13A to as much as 500Hz until about a year ago. Periodically I would check how Dirac would handle full range with some of the version updates, which is how I found out that Dirac finally was able to correct full range and sound great about a year ago. I've been letting Dirac correct full range ever since. It's Dirac Live version 3.3.3 that I still use now, even though there have been updates, some of the last ones have had some issues and are not recommended for usage until some fixes come along.

Can I assume when you say "full range", you're talking 2 channel and not measuring the subs? Did you not like the built-in ARC with your 13As or did you chose not to use it? It didn't make me jump for joy so its disabled but it doesn't mean it isn't good...I'm just not confident I'm doing this thing right. I've taken many measurements; with and without DynamicEQ, with and without the subs, adjusting the curve between 300 - 500Hz. What I know is constant, whichever tool I use, I always have to adjust the levels. On the same token, every tool absolutely sucks out my bass and without enabling DynamicEQ, I don't know enough about how to manually adjust the curves to get it back.

 

[msimanyi]

I won't speak for ttocs, but I use ARC before my other DSP corrections. For home theater, that gets into MSO (Multi Sub Optimizer) for integrating with my MiniDSP then I use Dirac DSP corrections for my home theater playback.

Since I *don't* use DSP for 2-channel playback, after ARC I dial in the bass response using the controls on my BF-210s and 15As, then I proceed with the MSO/Dirac corrections to be applied for home theater.

I am quite impressed with ARC's effects. My personal bias is I don't want thumping bass. I want to be wondering if the subwoofers are on. That's when everything can be quick and powerful at the same time.

If you're prepared to start what's likely to be quite a time-consuming journey, you can learn a ton about DSP optimization, though I'm not sure how powerful MultEQ is for custom curves. (I've not used it.)

If you don't already have it, you'll need the ML Perfect Bass Kit (PBK) for ARC, you'll need a good calibrated mic for the other measurements (MiniDSP UMIK 1 will do the trick), and you'll want to start reading up / going to YouTube University for Room EQ Wizard (REW).

You can also search in these forums. TTOCS has posted extensively about his work and posted suggestions along the way.

 

[ttocs]

Can I assume when you say "full range", you're talking 2 channel and not measuring the subs? Did you not like the built-in ARC with your 13As or did you chose not to use it? It didn't make me jump for joy so its disabled but it doesn't mean it isn't good...I'm just not confident I'm doing this thing right. I've taken many measurements; with and without DynamicEQ, with and without the subs, adjusting the curve between 300 - 500Hz. What I know is constant, whichever tool I use, I always have to adjust the levels. On the same token, every tool absolutely sucks out my bass and without enabling DynamicEQ, I don't know enough about how to manually adjust the curves to get it back.

Took me a while to understand that MultiEQ and DynamicEQ are EQ apps. I'd not known about them before.

Ok, so to recap, I use ML PBK/ARC for the Expressions which as we all know is only for the woofers up to 300Hz. I love how well it works for the Expressions! ARC is always enabled.

Next, I also use Dirac with my processor, an Emotiva XMC-2. For the last year Dirac has been working very well for the Expressions full range, from 20Hz all the way up to 20000Hz. Prior to a year ago Dirac just didn't sound right in the upper frequencies so I only allowed correction up to about 400-500Hz, but then something changed and now it works so well for full range correction.

I haven't mentioned subwoofers yet. The Expressions sound great just by themselves.

But since my space has about 6000 cubic feet of air, the Expressions need help if I want better dynamics, and if I want to turn up the volume and still have competent bass to fill the room, so this is where subwoofers come into play.

I've been able to get the results I want using several types of subwoofer setups. I've also experienced very poor results from subwoofer setup, mostly when I was trying to use MSO, Multi Sub Optimizer. This app sucked the life out of the bass most of the time. I was able to get some decent results, but it was always more tedious and time consuming to use. I suspect that maybe the apps you're using are having a similar effect.

If I may make a suggestion, you probably should work with just the Expressions and PBK/ARC. You should be able to get great results with just the speakers.

Maybe tomorrow I can look at how I use the ARC app and get back to you. Are you able to run ARC, maybe tomorrow night? and post some screenshots of the measurements? I can do the same and show you what happens with some of the settings choices. Otherwise, my next opportunity is Sunday when I'll be tweaking my setup for a Movie Night! Monday night. I've been experimenting a lot lately and need to tidy up for the event.

 

[Fidji99]

As a general advice [for every DRC] - look at potential dips in sensitive region - in your case it will be around crossover frequency, as Audyssey is quite aggressive in boosting [8dB, if I remember correctly], but Ios app gives you very limited control about what Audyssey might be doing. If you over-boost in the region, where your speakers are sensitive [on the limits of their working ranges between the panel and woofers] you might get unnecessary distorton.

There is a consensus, that 200 USD for Multeq-X WIndows app is money well spent, if you want to get most of your Marantz/Denon receiver based system.

Durimg my times with Audyssey - I have limited correction for L-R speakers only to 250Hz, rest of them I let run full-range correction. If you have properly equalized subs, I would recommend to run your 11A's still as Small with e.g 60Hz crossover frequency. For 2CH you can do full range listening or go for sub support.

 

[ttocs]

@ejspain oops, forgot I'm going to a friend's birthday bash tonight, so I'll get back with you Sunday, I'm out all day and night tomorrow. sorry

I thought I'd have some time this afternoon but the day went kerflooey.

 

[ejspain]

Took me a while to understand that MultiEQ and DynamicEQ are EQ apps. I'd not known about them before.

Ok, so to recap, I use ML PBK/ARC for the Expressions which as we all know is only for the woofers up to 300Hz. I love how well it works for the Expressions! ARC is always enabled.

Next, I also use Dirac with my processor, an Emotiva XMC-2. For the last year Dirac has been working very well for the Expressions full range, from 20Hz all the way up to 20000Hz. Prior to a year ago Dirac just didn't sound right in the upper frequencies so I only allowed correction up to about 400-500Hz, but then something changed and now it works so well for full range correction.

I haven't mentioned subwoofers yet. The Expressions sound great just by themselves.

But since my space has about 6000 cubic feet of air, the Expressions need help if I want better dynamics, and if I want to turn up the volume and still have competent bass to fill the room, so this is where subwoofers come into play.

I've been able to get the results I want using several types of subwoofer setups. I've also experienced very poor results from subwoofer setup, mostly when I was trying to use MSO, Multi Sub Optimizer. This app sucked the life out of the bass most of the time. I was able to get some decent results, but it was always more tedious and time consuming to use. I suspect that maybe the apps you're using are having a similar effect.

If I may make a suggestion, you probably should work with just the Expressions and PBK/ARC. You should be able to get great results with just the speakers.

Maybe tomorrow I can look at how I use the ARC app and get back to you. Are you able to run ARC, maybe tomorrow night? and post some screenshots of the measurements? I can do the same and show you what happens with some of the settings choices. Otherwise, my next opportunity is Sunday when I'll be tweaking my setup for a Movie Night! Monday night. I've been experimenting a lot lately and need to tidy up for the event.

If you're going to help, I can be available whenever. My PBK finally came in so I'm ready.

 

[ttocs]

If you're going to help, I can be available whenever. My PBK finally came in so I'm ready.

I posted in a new thread for ML's version of ARC.
PBK: ARC For ML Subwoofers & Masterpiece Speakers