Sanders -VS- CJ

[Burke]

Although if actively bi-amping the Monoliths, I'd not waste a Sanders amp on the woofer. Any decent SS amp will do, as all it's driving is an 8 Ohm 12" driver, no real challenge there.

I disagree here, I think one of the things that the Sanders amps do extremely well is to control the woofer. It can really make the cone jump out and stop with authority. The bass is extremely clear with Roger's amps. This is one of the areas where the Sanders clearly bested the CJ. The other was the very high end, these amps just do not run out of power at any impedance.

Yeah, you could use your Sunfire amps on the woofers and the Sanders Sound ESL Monoblocs on the panels. I could bring mine over sometime for an audition if you like, or you could just call Roger and get three mailed to you for a free thirty-day audition.

You should definitely borrow Rich's mono block, try them both on the panels and the woofers and tell us what you think. You could also get the ESL stereo and vertically bi-amp.

I would look at the free thirty day audition, more as thirty day free financing

 

[Rich]

Yeah, you could use your Sunfire amps on the woofers and the Sanders Sound ESL Monoblocs on the panels.

Or even better . . . Sanders Sound ESL monoblocs on the panels, and Sanders Sound Kilowatt monoblocs on the woofers! :devil:

 

[JonFo]

I disagree here, I think one of the things that the Sanders amps do extremely well is to control the woofer. It can really make the cone jump out and stop with authority. The bass is extremely clear with Roger's amps. This is one of the areas where the Sanders clearly bested the CJ. The other was the very high end, these amps just do not run out of power at any impedance.



You should definitely borrow Rich's mono block, try them both on the panels and the woofers and tell us what you think. You could also get the ESL stereo and vertically bi-amp.

I would look at the free thirty day audition, more as thirty day free financing

Hi Burke, I agree the Sanders amps would control the woofer very well, but my point is they are not unique in that ability. For instance, the Sunfire Stereo (300x2@8) I use on the Monolith woofers now is just fine. It measures well, and with the right driver (the Peerless) does a great job of supporting the panels.
When I have a Sanders amp in the rig, I'll measure the differences between the Sunfire and Sanders and we can settle which one has better response (both time domain and frequency response).

Or even better . . . Sanders Sound ESL monoblocs on the panels, and Sanders Sound Kilowatt monoblocs on the woofers! :devil:

Hi Rich, pushing me into overkill once again, aren't 'ya

However, even the 300w from the Sunfire can fry the woofer. So anything more than 250w or so is definitely overkill on the woofer. The panel can take all you can throw at it though
Hey, as soon as my little acoustics revamp is done (soon, I hope), let's plan a get-together, and I'll take you up on the offer to bring the Sanders over.

As ready as I am to get a set of my own, I've got a few other things stacked up in front of it. To wit:

• Upgrade to a DriveRack 4800 for the front channels. (dumping every Behringer in the stack).
• Add a Denon AVP-HD1 preamp. (still keeping the Meridian as a TriField processor).
• Add a Denon 2930ci universal transport so I can do DenonLink3 propagation of SACD and DVD-A to new Denon pre-amp.
• Replace CRT PJ with a JVC RS2
• Replace Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature with:
  • Sanders Monolblocks for Left/right (Sunfire Stereo will power woofer)
  • Sanders Stereo for center (One channel for mid-bass array, one for Panel).
  • Sanders Stereo for Rear Sequel Panels (Sunfire CG will power woofers)

 

[Rich]

Hi Rich, pushing me into overkill once again, aren't 'ya

What are friends for?

Hey, as soon as my little acoustics revamp is done (soon, I hope), let's plan a get-together, and I'll take you up on the offer to bring the Sanders over.

Sounds great. I would enjoy that tremendously. Then we will have to get you and Liz over to Huntsville to check out our fair town and my listening room.

As ready as I am to get a set of my own, I've got a few other things stacked up in front of it.

I wholeheartedly agree with every item on that list. I swear you are going to have one of the premier theaters / listening rooms in the South!

 

[Burke]

I wholeheartedly agree with every item on that list. I swear you are going to have one of the premier theaters / listening rooms in the South!

"one of" I don't think that is Johnath's goal.

 

[TomDac]

Really a great thread, guys....


The Monoliths are huge indeed.. I remember seeing a pair when I bought my Sequels...

Funny, though, I didn't see any monkeys dancing around yours throwing sticks into the air.... (an obscure 2001 A Space Odyssey reference)

 

[JonFo]

Really a great thread, guys....


The Monoliths are huge indeed.. I remember seeing a pair when I bought my Sequels...

Funny, though, I didn't see any monkeys dancing around yours throwing sticks into the air.... (an obscure 2001 A Space Odyssey reference)

Ah, you haven't been around my place on a saturday night ...

 

[JonFo]

What are friends for?



Sounds great. I would enjoy that tremendously. Then we will have to get you and Liz over to Huntsville to check out our fair town and my listening room.



I wholeheartedly agree with every item on that list. I swear you are going to have one of the premier theaters / listening rooms in the South!

that's the goal, no hold's barred ML system !

We'd love to come on by and check out your system and spend time with both Cindy and yourself.

 

[Cherian]

Well everyone,

I did it!! After thinking about if for 24 hours and recalling the sound of both the Sanders and CJ, last night I struck a deal for a CJ Premier 350. I'm hoping to have it in my system by the end of the week. :music:

I feel this will be quantum step forward.

Thanks to Burke and David for making it a tough fight. Either the Sanders or CJ would have been a fine choice in my system. In the end I surrendered to the warmth and smoothness of the CJ.

Cherian

 

[Bernard]

In the end I surrendered to the warmth and smoothness of the CJ.

Cherian

Curious is it not ? We all pray at the altar of neutrality and accuracy, but in the end we are seduced by the warmth of tubes. Welcome to the brotherhood.

 

[David Matz]

Curious is it not ? We all pray at the altar of neutrality and accuracy, but in the end we are seduced by the warmth of tubes. Welcome to the brotherhood.

Bernard,

At that level it is really hard to tell which is more "neutral" or "accurate". Both amps when listened to alone provide a musical whole. The CJ has more "information" in the midrange to me - the music has more realism and presence. Is this extra realism and presence make it less "neutral" or "accurate", or is it the other way around? Who knows? Is a richer tasting cup of coffee better or worse than a cup made with a little less coffee?

Another excellent amp I listened to was the Ayre V1-Xe. It is solid state as well as the CJ and the Sanders, but its midrange "information" is somewhere in between the CJ and the Sanders. Also, the Ayre has quicker microdynamics. Some would knock this microdynamic quickness as SS hyper-detail, others would claim that this is exactly how it should be. I personally thought the Ayre was a tremendous amp as well, and preferred it to the Sanders amp, but not to the CJ.

Just some personal thoughts. There is no right or wrong here, and it all fails the live music test (at least in rows 4-10). It is always best to audition.

Regards,
David

 

[Rich]

Bernard,

At that level it is really hard to tell which is more "neutral" or "accurate". Both amps when listened to alone provide a musical whole. The CJ has more "information" in the midrange to me - the music has more realism and presence. Is this extra realism and presence make it less "neutral" or "accurate", or is it the other way around? Who knows?

My opinion is that the more neutral Sanders amp is more accurate. Real unamplified music doesn't have an added presence in the midrange. It sounds the same throughout the frequency range, which is how the Sanders amps sound to me. The lush, warm midrange of the CJ amp and most tube amps is not natural, but it does sound great which is why we like them.

 

[David Matz]

My opinion is that the more neutral Sanders amp is more accurate. Real unamplified music doesn't have an added presence in the midrange. It sounds the same throughout the frequency range, which is how the Sanders amps sound to me. The lush, warm midrange of the CJ amp and most tube amps is not natural, but it does sound great which is why we like them.

Rich,

We are talking semantics, personal preferences, and tastes here. We can agree to disagree here. I am not sure if Sander’s “omission” in the midrange is more neutral than “commission” of other brands.

Is "ommission" neutrality? Not to me - it is ommission to me. To my ears the CJ midrange is more neutral, natural, and “real” sounding, especially with voices. Also, I am not sure if presentation of detail of the recording such as done by the excellent Bryston 14 B SST, or the Ayre’s combination of excellent microdynamics with Bryston’s detail and Sander's musicality is any less neutral; to me the latter two are definitely more “accurate”. Like I said, we can agree to disagree.

They all present a musical whole. They all sound great. If there was only one implementation, things would be boring as hell.

 

[Cherian]

I got the CJ Premier 350 Amplifier today!!!! After lugging it home and dragging it in to the house and down in to the basement I took a 20 minute break. Then back to the install. Man this amp is heavy!! I felt all 85 lbs of it. Got it in and I'm smiling from ear to ear . This is the best my system has ever sounded. This is the most detailed amp I have ever listened to. No grain no fuzz just beautiful music with fidelity and detail I have never heard before. I think this is the best amp I have listened to date. No buyer’s remorse here. Just joy and astonishment!! I want to stay home tomorrow and listen to everything I own. I had do idea it could sound this good. The sound is epic. I'm moved emotionally. Pictures to come soon.

Could it be my system is complete?! Kidding!!!

 

[David Matz]

I got the CJ Premier 350 Amplifier today!!!! After lugging it home and dragging it in to the house and down in to the basement I took a 20 minute break. Then back to the install. Man this amp is heavy!! I felt all 85 lbs of it. Got it in and I'm smiling from ear to ear . This is the best my system has ever sounded. This is the most detailed amp I have ever listened to. No grain no fuzz just beautiful music with fidelity and detail I have never heard before. I think this is the best amp I have listened to date. No buyer’s remorse here. Just joy and astonishment!! I want to stay home tomorrow and listen to everything I own. I had do idea it could sound this good. The sound is epic. I'm moved emotionally. Pictures to come soon.

Could it be my system is complete?! Kidding!!!

Cherian,

Congratulations! Sorry to tell you, it's never complete! How about shoot out #2 - Monolith's vs. Summits. Burke can bring his Summits, I can bring my Ayre and BAT electronics. Maybe we all can bring some bass traps - although probably not enough for your giant room.

 

[Cherian]

Summit –VS- Monolith. Sounds like fun. My wife will thing we are insane but so be it. Let’s say High noon when everyone is ready. David I would love to stop by one day and listen to your system.

 

[Rich]

Man this amp is heavy!! I felt all 85 lbs of it.

Ha! That's not heavy. My Pass Labs amp weighs in at 150 lbs., and when it first arrived I lugged it in, unboxed it, and put it into the system all by my lonesome self!

Congratulations on your new amp. It will provide you with years of unadulterated pleasure. Speakers come and go, but great amps can hang with you for awhile.

 

[Burke]

too bad that you could not make it Sunday. I setup a bunch of impromptu bass traps to see if they improved things. Man did they make a difference in cleaning up the bass and really expanded the soundstage. Then when David brought his Ayre CX-5 and Bat preamp that added a big jump again. It was the some of the best sound either one of us has ever heard.

I can hardly wait to bring the sound bats up to your place and show what a difference they can make. The monolith and CJ are a great combination. Add in some room treatments and take it to the next level. You won't want to come upstairs until your daughter graduates.

 

[MiTT]

Ha! That's not heavy. My Pass Labs amp weighs in at 150 lbs., and when it first arrived I lugged it in, unboxed it, and put it into the system all by my lonesome self!

Congratulations on your new amp. It will provide you with years of unadulterated pleasure. Speakers come and go, but great amps can hang with you for awhile.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. My BAT is close to 200lbs!

I bet it does sound marvelous though. Congrats Cherian, you'll be up late for a while getting to know this new baby I think.

 

[Cherian]

I have been listening to this bad boy for the last 5 hours. I love this amp even more now. :rocker: