Roger Sanders speaks out.

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Horchem1972

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Roger Sanders video at Audiogon.com

Has anyone seen his video that has a link at Audiogon.com?I found his theories very interesting.Does anyone else have any opinions.His 30 day risk free trials are unheard of these days.:D:eek:
 
First, the link to the Video: http://live.audiogon.com/events/the2008/vids/Sanders_room.html

This is a great Video. Roger is sure worth listening to when speaking about ESLs.

His comments about dispersion have merit, but I’m not 100% sold that a flat front panel is ideal.
While a curvilinear panel will spread more sound out into the room and engage more surfaces, it does provide the benefit of giving first-arrival sounds to those within its field of dispersion.

Managing the room, as we’ve been discussing lately, is very, very important. Regardless of speaker technology, if the first reflections, rear wave cancellations, and general room bass modes are not dealt with, then any speaker will not sound good.

On general imaging, he mentions the fact that all speakers have a sweet spot (true) as there is one location which will have more direct, phase coherent sound than any other (with room sounds buried in the primary arrival signal). The problem is, a flat planar will give you that for sure, but will absolutely not do it for the seat three fee away. Whereas a curvilinear speaker does provide direct sounds to seats outside the sweet spot.

The challenge is, that speakers with wider dispersion will indeed engage the room more. This is why an ideal ML (Curved panels) room will have substantial sidewall treatments to help manage not only first reflections, but other reflection points that destroy imaging. (at the expense of what some call ‘soundstage’).
Stay tuned for an upcoming update to the room treatments thread where I complete the side walls.

Rogers speakers I’m sure are pretty awesome sounding, I’m not questioning that, it’s more a difference of philosophy based on my assumption that a slightly broader horizontal dispersion is a good thing if your room is well proportioned and treated.
If you are building a 2ch only, single seat listening room, then his viewpoint and speaker design is absolutely correct, as fewer room reflections = better sound at the sweet spot.

But if that’s where you’re going, then you might want to consider a pair of Stax ear-speakers.

My take is a good sound system these days should handle surround, allow for six or so listeners and provide a wide, neutral soundstage for the recordings.
 
Although I do agree with the idea of a curved panel being more room friendly or it may alow a few extra seats a better than average spot. I still feel that two channel listening is a one person sport. If I want multiple sweet spots or hot seats I will use multi channel. That being said......I relized with my CLS that room plays more into the system than any single component. I had several flat panel speakers. None were as easy to work with as my Logans. My findings are the bigger the panels the farther out you need to be . Again its room management.


POSTED VIA CELLULAR
 
Still happy w/ my Monolith's

Even though I find his theory interesting,I still love my Monolith's.Every speaker manufacturer has their idea of what is right.I personally prefer the sound of Martin Logan.I have owned original CLS's,Scenarios and now Monolith's and have enjoyed all three.If I could just get my Manley Referance 360 watt mnoblocks back,I would be in heaven.:eek::rocker:
 
Having owned his Innersound Speakers and various Martin logans I have to say, while part of what he says is right, the sweet spot is SO FREAKISHLY NARROW that it's just not practical. They sounded great in the sweet spot, but I literally couldn't move my head 5" either way without a noticeable drop off.

I replace the Eros speakers with some ReQuests and was very happy with them, there was just too much compromise living with the flat stator speakers.

JonFo is right, if you want that level of reproduction, get Stax headphones. Otherwise consider Sander's speakers headphones that you can't move around with.

His TL woofer was very nice though. Plus, his equipment is handmade by him, and priced accordingly... :)
 
Well I just got off of the phone with Mr. Sanders and looks like I may be getting one of his amps with crossover built in. I have to say Roger Sanders is a pleasure to talk to. He is full of knowledge and willing to share.
 
Thanks for the headsup. Tom can you please delete this post?

Thanks

Cherian
 
Cherian,

What time do you want me to bring the amps by on Saturday? We can bi-amp the monoliths.

--burke
 
Hello Burke,

Any time that works for you will work for me. I'm free all afternoon and evening.

Sorry to say Burke I can not bi-amp as my crossover is only passive not set up for bi-amping. I can not wait to listen to the amps as I'm thinking about getting a set. The only issue is Sanders told me I will have to wait 3 months as he is super busy building his new speakers.
 
Although I do agree with the idea of a curved panel being more room friendly or it may alow a few extra seats a better than average spot. I still feel that two channel listening is a one person sport. If I want multiple sweet spots or hot seats I will use multi channel. That being said......I relized with my CLS that room plays more into the system than any single component. I had several flat panel speakers. None were as easy to work with as my Logans. My findings are the bigger the panels the farther out you need to be . Again its room management.


POSTED VIA CELLULAR

I agree with you, having owned Acoustats and Quads in my prior life. A good friend of mine (who just ordered a new pair of Summits this morning after spending the weekend with mine) still has his 2+2's and said that the Summits were much easier to listen to off axis.

I've also found that with better associated electronics the summits do have a wider soundstage, making them a 1 1/2 -2 person set of speakers...

But I do agree that it's a one person sport!
 
Horchem, where are you at in Illinois? If you are near me, stop by and find out if you like. If you’re worried about strangers, JoeyV might vouch for me. We have emailed/PM’d on occasion. I don’t find the flat panels of the Eros MK III a disadvantage at all in my large room. Roger tells me my MK III's with the Ultrastat panels and his new 10a speakers sound alike.

I am also interested in his new active crossover bass amp. He has redesigned it to free up space for the larger Toroidal transformer he uses in his Sanders ESL amp. It will also allow space for additional and higher capacity storage caps like those used in his ESL amp. The older InnerSound MK II active crossover bass amp only had four caps due to the active circuit boards taking up the space where they would be located, while the InnerSound/Sanders ESL amps have eight caps.
 
Horchem, where are you at in Illinois? If you are near me, stop by and find out if you like. If you’re worried about strangers, JoeyV might vouch for me. We have emailed/PM’d on occasion. I don’t find the flat panels of the Eros MK III a disadvantage at all in my large room. Roger tells me my MK III's with the Ultrastat panels and his new 10a speakers sound alike.

I am also interested in his new active crossover bass amp. He has redesigned it to free up space for the larger Toroidal transformer he uses in his Sanders ESL amp. It will also allow space for additional and higher capacity storage caps like those used in his ESL amp. The older InnerSound MK II active crossover bass amp only had four caps due to the active circuit boards taking up the space where they would be located, while the InnerSound/Sanders ESL amps have eight caps.

SCompRacer,

If you want to try out the new ESL amps, I am just north on 355 from you, in the western burbs.

Man this Chicago group is getting larger every day.
 
Located in Saybrook

It's a little town between Bloomington and Champaign.I am located about 110 miles from Plainfield.It is less than 2 hours away.Even though I found his theory interesting,I am not discounting any other speaker,or should buy headphones.:eek:
 
If you want to try out the new ESL amps, I am just north on 355 from you, in the western burbs.

Thanks for the generous offer Burke. I already have a Sanders ESL amp on the panels. The monos are out of reach for now so I surely don't want to hear what they could do for me.

Rich
 
It's a little town between Bloomington and Champaign.I am located about 110 miles from Plainfield.It is less than 2 hours away.

A two hour road trip for me means an overnight stay…LOL

I have a friend that lives in Bloomington. We had a two and a half day audio get together there last year. I brought most of my gear as some folks that attended never heard an ESL speaker.

The offer is still open. If anyone is nearby and wants to stop in, let me know.
 
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