Resonance (distortion) in ESL 13a

[rpokuls]

I recently upgraded from Montis to Expressions. Overall, the improvement over the Montis is very evident.

However, I have noticed that I hear a resonance or buzzing sound when stringed instruments such as guitar or bass are being played solo.
For example, when a guitar string is plucked, I can sometimes hear a resonance or distortion over the tone of the string.

I hear this only on some albums, i.e. really well recorded albums, i.e. Patrica Barber. Most album (95%) sound fine. Even on
albums where I hear the buzzing, it is usually only 1 or 2 cuts.

It thought is was something vibrating in the room at first, but by placing my ear up to the speaker,
I found out that it is coming from the woofers (not the panel).

I put the speakers up on the spikes and also repositioned them, but that did not help.

The speakers have about 75 to 100 hours of break in time. Would more break-in time help?

Does anybody have any insight into this? Has anybody experienced something like this?

 

[ttocs]

More hours at higher break-in volume using music that will challenge the panels.

As the hours approached 100 and beyond, I had some particular sections of music recordings that contained sounds which would sound "shrill". This went away after 130-150 hours.

I know of quite a few folks who play pink noise at "normal" volume, but that doesn't do it in my estimation. I played music via Pandora at 90dB day and night during the first week. Jazz during the days, ambient at night. As time went on I backed off from playing 24/7 to a more sane schedule.

These Expressions took a lot longer to break-in than the Vistas I had before, which only needed around 80 hours. I kept a running log detailing the experience and posted in a thread HERE.

 

[sleepysurf]

If using ARC for the woofers, temporarily turn it off, and see if that makes a difference. It's possible you're hearing the analog-to-digital-to-analog DSP conversion that is invoked by ARC. After upgrading from the Summits to Expressions (and running ARC), I think I lost a little something in the mids. However, IMHO, the improved woofer-panel integration more than makes up for that. YMMV.

 

[rpokuls]

sleepysurf, ttocs

Thx, I did try turning of ARC but unfortunately, it didn't make any difference.

The thing is that in 95% of the time it sounds great. As I said before, it seems to be
associated with stringed instruments., ie. bass, cello, guitar.

95% of the time, strings sounds great, but there is a small % where I can hear a distortion. Maybe it's other instruments
too, but strings seem to be where I hear it most.

Recording artifact maybe?

As ttocs said, maybe more breakin is required.

 

[roberto]

Hola,
I had that problem once. What I did is, I disconnect the whole system, and connected back again. I had the harsh sound on one channel only. Including the speaker cables too. Then I connect all the cables again, and voila, problem solved. Somewhere I had a faulty contact that was making my system to have this odd harsh sound. Make sure that all the cables go to the end and all the speaker cables must be tight. Perhaps this could help. Your new speakers are more revealing than the Montis model...so everything must be doing good contact.
Happy listening

 

[rpokuls]

roberto,

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

Did your harsh sound seem like a distortion?

 

[roberto]

Yes , Martin Logan electrostatic speakers are clean, crispy and transparent. If you hear distortion, as an example, a S, and what you get is SH, is distortion or harsh sound. But only there basically. The sound is not clean. If you have heavy distortion, usually is one channel of your power amp the culprit. Check for both speakers having the distortion or if only one is the cause. Then, swap the speaker cables, left to right, and right to left, and listen if you have the same speaker with the distortion. If now is the other speaker with the bad sound, then you have a power amp problem.

Happy listening!

 

[roberto]

Faulty contacts can produce distortion too. Bad RCA cables, and loose speaker connectors can produce distortion or harsh sound.

Happy listening!

 

[rpokuls]

Roberto,

Thank you! I will give it a try today.

It was also suggested that I give more time for the speakers to break-in. I think I'll wait a month and
see if there is improvement. If not, I'll call Martin Logan.

 

[user 49612]

rpokuls did you ever solve this? I have a friend with 13As that has this same problem. There is something that around 150-250hz resonates in the bass cabinet but we cant figure out what!

 

[Fidji99]

rpokuls did you ever solve this? I have a friend with 13As that has this same problem. There is something that around 150-250hz resonates in the bass cabinet but we cant figure out what!

Had the same issue at around 220 Hz.
It was loose internal cabling to front woofer.

Best way to check is slow sine sweep in REW.

 

[user 49612]

Had the same issue at around 220 Hz.
It was loose internal cabling to front woofer.

Best way to check is slow sine sweep in REW.

Thats exactly what I did! Can you please share any extra details of your fix? I have no problem removing the woofer but want to know what to do with the cable

 

[rpokuls]

rpokuls did you ever solve this? I have a friend with 13As that has this same problem. There is something that around 150-250hz resonates in the bass cabinet but we cant figure out what!

Hi,

Update on my OP:

1) I did a sine sweep on the ESL 13 and found that the resonance occurred at about 195 Hz.

2) Borrowed a pair of bookshelf speakers from my neighbor and heard the same thing. So concluded that it's
something in the room and not the speakers.

3) Got a couple of scraps of indoor carpeting and placed them under the speakers. Also placed the ESL rubber feet into
some furniture protectors for more isolation.

4) Buzzing disappeared, but the carpeting looks like crap. Need a more elegant solution.

Am thinking about buying those Isoacoustic GAIA feet to see if they work. They seem to look quite nice.

 

[user 49612]

Hi,

Update on my OP:

1) I did a sine sweep on the ESL 13 and found that the resonance occurred at about 195 Hz.

2) Borrowed a pair of bookshelf speakers from my neighbor and heard the same thing. So concluded that it's
something in the room and not the speakers.

3) Got a couple of scraps of indoor carpeting and placed them under the speakers. Also placed the ESL rubber feet into
some furniture protectors for more isolation.

4) Buzzing disappeared, but the carpeting looks like crap. Need a more elegant solution.

Am thinking about buying those Isoacoustic GAIA feet to see if they work. They seem to look quite nice.

Negative, these have Gaias already installed so not likely. Going to pursue the wire thing if I get more details preferably

 

[Fidji99]

Thats exactly what I did! Can you please share any extra details of your fix? I have no problem removing the woofer but want to know what to do with the cable

It was performed by ML dealer at my place and he was not surprised, when he heard about it.

If I remember correctly - it was enough to remove the grille, then this MDF part (is similar on front) and wires hidden in gray jacket were accessible. But it was a while ago, so I may be missing some details. But I do not remember him e.g. pulling out elctronics.

 

[Kernel]

Hi,

Update on my OP:

1) I did a sine sweep on the ESL 13 and found that the resonance occurred at about 195 Hz.

2) Borrowed a pair of bookshelf speakers from my neighbor and heard the same thing. So concluded that it's
something in the room and not the speakers.

3) Got a couple of scraps of indoor carpeting and placed them under the speakers. Also placed the ESL rubber feet into
some furniture protectors for more isolation.

4) Buzzing disappeared, but the carpeting looks like crap. Need a more elegant solution.

Am thinking about buying those Isoacoustic GAIA feet to see if they work. They seem to look quite nice.

I put GAIA feet under my 15A's which sit on a voided floor. An absolute transformation for the better IMO.

 

[user 49612]

Wanted to let everyone know I added a gasket right on the edge of the front woofer where it screws in and the resonance is gone