What is the expert opinion regarding minimum room size needed for this speaker? Also, how big an upgrade compared to the original Summits? Considering both the 13A and the 15A speakers.
Renaissance 15A Considerations
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My 13A's are in a 5500 cubic foot space and they work great! The 15A would be even greater.
I've heard both in really small demo rooms that were properly setup and both were great, not too much bass. So this just means that you can get good results even under duress, but it's not a guarantee of success in every small room. Just like big subwoofers in tiny rooms is not a good starting point, the 15A is probably overkill for a 1500 cubic foot room, consider the space behind them, and I wouldn't want anything that's just idling all the time. Everything has its sweet spot.
Minimum size? I'd say about 3000 cubic feet.
15A vs Summit: The 15A has bigger woofers, bigger amps, bigger panel, and ARC which is a big deal! ARC helps a lot! My 13A's measure below 20Hz in-room.
I've heard both in really small demo rooms that were properly setup and both were great, not too much bass. So this just means that you can get good results even under duress, but it's not a guarantee of success in every small room. Just like big subwoofers in tiny rooms is not a good starting point, the 15A is probably overkill for a 1500 cubic foot room, consider the space behind them, and I wouldn't want anything that's just idling all the time. Everything has its sweet spot.
Minimum size? I'd say about 3000 cubic feet.
15A vs Summit: The 15A has bigger woofers, bigger amps, bigger panel, and ARC which is a big deal! ARC helps a lot! My 13A's measure below 20Hz in-room.
15a vs original Summits, big upgrade IMO. My room is 14'6" x 24'6" x 8' and I wouldn't go bigger than the 13a's. The only time I heard the 15a's was in a room approx 18' x 30' x 10', stat panels were 6-7' off the front wall. Sounded superb !
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My room is 945 sq ft with 7'7 ceilings so a little over 7000 cu ft. I bought 13As speakers but probably should have gone for 15A.
I was advised by others on this forum that 13As would be good. Unfortunately the MLs disappointed but not because of their size. They were placed mid-room and MLs don't like this. They need to have a rear wall behind them rather than the open space of my room. I sold the MLs and kept my ancient horns. In a "normal" room of the size of mine, the 15A would be better but the 13A perfectly up to the job of providing excellent sound. Just be aware that their location relative to the rear wall is more important with MLs than probably any other brand.
I was advised by others on this forum that 13As would be good. Unfortunately the MLs disappointed but not because of their size. They were placed mid-room and MLs don't like this. They need to have a rear wall behind them rather than the open space of my room. I sold the MLs and kept my ancient horns. In a "normal" room of the size of mine, the 15A would be better but the 13A perfectly up to the job of providing excellent sound. Just be aware that their location relative to the rear wall is more important with MLs than probably any other brand.
Yeah rear wall distance seems improtant. You also dont want them too close. Ive not had any issues in my room with my Prodigy speakers. They sit between 3 and 4 feet from the wall.
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Yes, probably up to about 6 ft is fine. My speakers are 12 ft and 15 ft in front of a curved floor-to-ceiling glazed wall. Far from good for electrostatics but fine for horns!
Peter
I really appreciate this discussion, as I am learning a lot from minds brighter than mine (although that is probably not saying much). My room runs about 5400 cu. ft., and I do have decent flexibility with the wall behind the speakers. Of note, this is not a fully-enclosed room, in that about 30% of the front wall (to the left of where the speakers will be placed) and about 20 percent of the wall to the right wall are open space (mid-way front to back). Not ideal, but it is what I what I am dealing with, given WAF, etc.
Again, thanks so much for the enlightening discussion and advice. Hope to get the upgrade going soon.
Again, thanks so much for the enlightening discussion and advice. Hope to get the upgrade going soon.
I faced the exact same decision as I also upgraded from a pair of Summits, and debated about whether to move to the 13A or the 15A's. Also, while my main room is roughly 425 sq ft, there is another room that is open into it that adds another 300 sq ft. All ceilings are 8 ft. This gives me an overall volume of about 5800 sq ft. It's kind of a weird space as both rooms basically form a big L, with a couple of smaller alcoves off of each room. The guys at Audio Advice recommended the 15A's based on my floor plan/room volume.
That said, I 'was' going to go with the 13A's figuring that would be a big upgrade from my Summits (and I really didn't want to spend the extra money to go all the way to 15A's). However, my wife stepped in and her vote was we go with the 15A's... and who was I to argue with her! Let's just put it this way... SHE is very happy with HER decision!!
That said, I 'was' going to go with the 13A's figuring that would be a big upgrade from my Summits (and I really didn't want to spend the extra money to go all the way to 15A's). However, my wife stepped in and her vote was we go with the 15A's... and who was I to argue with her! Let's just put it this way... SHE is very happy with HER decision!!
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I think your wife has probably made the right decision! How did the Summits perform in your room? I suspect you may have wanted a bit more oomph. I bought 13As but probably should have gone for the 15As, although the additional cost is excessive. The 15A stands upright compared with the laid back attitude of the 11A and 13A. I found this backward tilt far too great unless I was listening from a bar stool. In fact, I'm pleased I went for the 13As as it was very difficult to re-sell them after a few months (even at a lower price than 11As) so selling the 15A may have been even more difficult and costly. This may be just a UK thing but MLs are very difficult to sell on the used market.
I must say all this gives me pause about purchasing any MLs...
Don't mean to be a heretic, but am also considering the Revel Salon 2. Of course, I fear I would dearly miss the sweetness of the ML sound. Any thoughts, Dave? Or others?
Don't mean to be a heretic, but am also considering the Revel Salon 2. Of course, I fear I would dearly miss the sweetness of the ML sound. Any thoughts, Dave? Or others?
Len, I'm starting year four with my Revel Studio2's and could not be happier with my decision four years ago and have zero interest in making any more changes save for component failure. Now, with that being said and having auditioned the 13a's a little while after I got my Revels I will admit that if I had to choose between the two today it would be a coin flip.
Also, for the record I listened extensively to the Salon2's and while I loved them given my room size (14'6" x 24'4") the Studio2's work to perfection.
Also, for the record I listened extensively to the Salon2's and while I loved them given my room size (14'6" x 24'4") the Studio2's work to perfection.
^^^
Dang it, Dave -- you're supposed to be my decision-maker! Seriously, I do appreciate your valuable thoughts on what has become a more difficult decision than I imagined.
Dang it, Dave -- you're supposed to be my decision-maker! Seriously, I do appreciate your valuable thoughts on what has become a more difficult decision than I imagined.
Len,
After 20 years with SL3's I picked up 11A's. I have had them since July and hopefully they are broken in by now. As Roberto says they are more detailed , improved bass but to my ears there is something missing and not engaging me. They seem more clinical and not organic, rich , full sounding vocals like the SL3's. In the interim I picked up a pair of CLS II (30 yo panels) and they seem to have the ML Mojo. Currently waiting on new panels.
I considered non stat but would miss those things ONLY a stat can do.
For now , it will be a slow comparison between CLS and 11A.
Meanwhile my friend who bought my SL3's is enjoying them immensely(best speaker he ever heard!)
Good luck
After 20 years with SL3's I picked up 11A's. I have had them since July and hopefully they are broken in by now. As Roberto says they are more detailed , improved bass but to my ears there is something missing and not engaging me. They seem more clinical and not organic, rich , full sounding vocals like the SL3's. In the interim I picked up a pair of CLS II (30 yo panels) and they seem to have the ML Mojo. Currently waiting on new panels.
I considered non stat but would miss those things ONLY a stat can do.
For now , it will be a slow comparison between CLS and 11A.
Meanwhile my friend who bought my SL3's is enjoying them immensely(best speaker he ever heard!)
Good luck
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I too considered the Revel Studio 2s when I decided to upgrade from 2002 Avantgarde Unos. I didn't mainly because I thought they were possibly rather long in the tooth and I should be looking at newer designs. Also, having successfully tried Quad 2905s (with 2912 mods), I thought that electrostatics may be the way forward.
As you know, my excursion into ML was not successful though my room is to blame not the speakers and I stuck with Avantgardes - first by finding excellent 2006 Duos and then going mad with new Duo XDs. This type of speaker seems to suit my 945 sq ft semi-circular room so much better and I'm having no regrets. Peter
Update to my previous post-
I just auditioned the Mcintosh MC1502(very nice!) with the 11A's at our local dealer -sounded like a completely different speaker to me. Much more fleshed out, engaging, 3D, etc. I initially heard them with big Pass monos in July-wonderful but different.
My VTL's play nicely with the CLS but not so well with the 11A.
My impressions
so far...
I just auditioned the Mcintosh MC1502(very nice!) with the 11A's at our local dealer -sounded like a completely different speaker to me. Much more fleshed out, engaging, 3D, etc. I initially heard them with big Pass monos in July-wonderful but different.
My VTL's play nicely with the CLS but not so well with the 11A.
My impressions
so far...Hear Here
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I don't have experience with the amps you mention with my 13As, but I did buy a Sanders Magtech specifically for the MLs. I also had a Gamut D200 Mk III. Both seemed to be good matches with the 13As but I decided to sell the Sanders (no good with Avantgardes) and the 13As (no good in my particular room). The Gamut sold too only because it is bad-mannered in that it's start-up (and shut-down) was not protected by relays so it caused a potentially damaging thump through my 107 dB sensitivity AGs.Update to my previous post-
I just auditioned the Mcintosh MC1502(very nice!) with the 11A's at our local dealer -sounded like a completely different speaker to me. Much more fleshed out, engaging, 3D, etc. I initially heard them with big Pass monos in July-wonderful but different.
My VTL's play nicely with the CLS but not so well with the 11A.
My impressions
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NMdesertRat
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So I have smallish listening room for my 15A's. 14X22 feet, with 12 foot ceilings. Electrostatic panel is 6 feet from front wall, each speaker about 2 and 1/2 feet from side wall. Listening sofa is about 12 feet from speakers. They sound absolutely stunning with amazing soundstage. I have Classe amp and preamp - Class A - but what I really enjoy is the "tilt" feature - many jazz recordings sound too bass-rich for my room - I turn the tilt so I get -3db bass and +3 treble and it sounds perfect. For pop and rock recordings, 0db is perfect for my room.
Yes the 15a have a wonderful soundstage and amazing detail. I am running them of a McIntosh Mc 12000 integrated the match is fantastic. My room is about 17 x17 with 9 foot ceilings but has a nook of about 7 x4 where I have a built in for storing records and cds etc.
I traded up from 13a which are great I still have to do room equalisation and run the speakers in but out of the box great
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