Projector Recommendation?

[squasher100]

Thank you for the thoughtful advise. I share your opinion on the price points and have seen some of the $60k 3 chip DLP projectors which have an amazing picture quality and brightness (one of my issues with lower lumen projectors). When I bought my current Runco unit, it seemed to have the most film like image available at that time (2003) in that price range. Not that the Marantz, Sharp and Sony units were bad, Runco seemed to have that that extra 10% better image you had to pay that obscene extra $$ for. Flash forward to today, Runco is not the same company it used to be.... most of the old Runco guys now work for Wolf Cinema and I am not even sure what Sam Runco is doing these days

Moving on to my dilemma, my current budget is more like yours in the $5k-$15k range. Curious why you ordered the Sony unit when most web sites and folks who attended CEDIA wrote that the new JVC units looked better? Were you able to do a side by side comparison before buying? Do you feel that the Sony unit is bright enough? I saw some of the LED based DLP units and the picture quality is very good, but the light output is on the low end. The newer Sony has 1000 lumens while the new JVC touts 1300 lumens.

For those who seems to love the Panny, has anyone done a side by side with Sony or JVC? I know the price points are different, but is the picture quality like 90% there? Or, the same?

I have been in to front projectors since 1981 when I talked my roomate in to buying a front projector with a 7 foot screen and watiching Indiana play for the Natioanl Championship on the day it was delivered. I have been hooked ever since and have owned Mitsubishi, Seleco, and a series of Sony's.

The lense is in fact a big part of it, but then so is the processing power, the lamp, the cooling system, the software, the DACs, the features, etc. Those things are not marketing hype, they are what it takes to do an outstanding projector.

Each time I was in the market for a new projector, I went out and spent many weeks researching and comparing picture quality of the different brands. As I got older and had more disposable income, I kept expanding the universe upward in price, looking at Digital Projection, Runco, Wolf, and top of the line Sony, Panasonic, Sim2, and others.

One point to consider and then in most cases to forget

One is that it is fun to go look at a $50,000 or even a $100,000 dollar projector. It is just plain fun to do and it also gives you a perspective on what the real state of the art is and how much you want to bite off to get there. Just because you look at one doesn't mean you buy it. If you know what I mean.

Another point to consider is that as you go up the ladder in projection units, the price does get higher and the features and PQ get better too. The reason you go look at all this stuff is to get a sense of where your own wants, needs and desires fit your pocketbook.

You try to buy the one with the most features that interest you, okay the features you can't live without and yet you are constrained by your budget. I can tell you right now when you go look at a Panasonic PT-DZ12000U the PQ will amaze you, but the price is $90K MSRP and Street Price of $60K, if that fits your pocket book then you are done. Done that is unless you go look at a DPI Titan at $80K with full 1080P 3D. Then you may get buyers remorse.

My point is most people can't drop 100s of thousands of dollars on these things. But technology has advanced so much on projectors that you can get 90% of the way there while spending closer to 5 or 10 thousand dollars. But you won't know what 90% of the way there is unless you go look at the top of the line projection systems. Once you know what at the top of the mountain you can look at the different levels in a different 'eye' so to speak. And like I said, it all depends on your pocket book, nobody elses.

When you go in to these upper tier projectors, which back then meant $100K and up...there was and there is a difference in the picture and don't let anyone tell you that you can't see the difference. Go see some of these systems yourself and you will see the difference with your own eyes.

There is a difference between a 500 dollar projector and a 1000 dollar projector, just like there is a difference between a 2000 dollar projector and a 4 or 5 thousand dollar projector and yes Virginia, there is a difference between a 5K projector and a 10K projector and a 50K projector.

Anyway, rather than picking a projector and saying this is it. I will leave you with this. I looked at projectors when I first had real disposable income in the mid-90s and found that I could get 90% of the way there for about 20K. Around 05 that price had dropped to 13K, in 08 it dropped to 10K and now it is right at 8K, I just ordered a Sony VPL VW90ES Full 1080P 3D projector for 8K. The 2D PQ is as good as projectors in the 30K plus range.

Now before anybody gets their panties in a bunch because there isn't enough 3D content. I also have 6 months worth of video and still photographs in 3D that I shot with my Fuji W-1 and W-3. Until you see a half-dozen or more hummingbirds literally flying around a feeder that is suspended in air in the room with you, you just can't understand what 3D is really all about. 3D movies and sports are cool but your own photos and videos actually take you back to that exact experience when it is done in 3D. Oh and I actaully have in my hands, AVATAR in Bluray 3D, but that is another story.

Bottom line go out and look at the top of the line so you can figure out how far up the ladder you want to go. And remember its the journey, not the destination that counts.

 

[Dan Osib]

I agree Dan you are confused.

It sounds to me like you have not compared the Titan's PQ directy to the Epson or surely you would not ask that question. Have you ever even seen a DPI Titan?

As Gordon so eloquently pointed out, a claimed measuremet here or there doesn't always result in the effect on PQ that you would expect.

All I have said from the beginning is if the OP wants to learn just what is possible in the world of projectors then the OP needs to look at some of the higher end projectors so that he can decide at what level he wants to jump in the water, so to speak. As you go up the ladder there is a difference in PQ and features between the different classes of projectors.

The Epson and Panny you reference might be the best projectors in their class. But surely you are not suggesting that the Epson or Panny has a better overall picture than all the Projectors in the $5000 dollar class and/or $10,000 dollar class, and/or the $20,000 dollar class, and/or the $50,000 dollar class. Or that everyone should be satisfied with the features and PQ of the Panny and Epson. Although to be honest, that is what it sounds like to me.

Remember we are all different, some people can't handle color wheels, some people need motionflow, some people can't handle fringing, or ghosting and some people want to be able to use special lenses for throw or aspect ratio and some people have to have lots of lumens and some don't, and then there are some that have to have 3D, that would be me

OK I believe you, but if I was to compare the Epson and Titan side by side, what improvements would I notice in picture quality for the extra $48,000 outlay that the Titan demands?

 

[Tj Bassi]

There are all sorts of ways to fudge contrast ratio measurements-and manufacturers know this. In reality there are other things to pay more attention to when shopping for a PJ. How do you choose? Best advice I can offer is to read the reviews, see what's popular over at PJ Central or AVS forum, then hunt out a theater in your area where the owner will offer up a demo.
Personally, I am quite impressed by the performance of some of the latest projectors, especially at the *modest* prices. We started looking at some of the JVCs and wound up liking the Panasonic, mainly because of the lens memory option and how much other owners raved about it. There is approx a $6000 price difference between the two, so in that budget range there are many other units that could be considered. In today's market, I don't see the need to plop down any more than 10k for a pj, everything else is just money left on the table.....

Tj

 

[JMAUSGP]

OK I believe you, but if I was to compare the Epson and Titan side by side, what improvements would I notice in picture quality for the extra $48,000 outlay that the Titan demands?

Sorry for the tardy pie....I mean relpy, had lots of Thanksgiving obligations.

And to be honest Dan, everyone is a little bit different, so I really can't say whether you will notice lots of things or just a few things. I am sure you have seen or heard where one person says they perceive x and the other perceives Y and they are looking or listening to the same thing you are. Human nature I guess.

The Titan lumens is 6000, so I would guess you could see that. The bulbs are Xenon which is recognized as producing most accurate color. DPI's main line of business is producing commercial projectors for movie theaters and Hollywood film studios, to run in your local theater and for studios to run dailies. DPI makes machines for the movie theater that you go to..........or not....depending on how close you make your HT to the real thing.

Again the point isn't to figure out what a $20K or $50K does or doesn't have when comparing it to the Panny or Epson.......although that is where you get too eventually.

But rather it allows you to see a benchmark. Kind of like listening to a pair of Statements or CLXs, it lets you know what is possible and then you work you way down to the point where your pocketbook and your wants, needs and desires, intersect. But unless you take a look from the top of the mountain.....well how can you judge how high you are? So to speak.

Or put another way, if you were offered a pair of CLXs or Statements for free, would you take them? Again this is assuming you like ESLs

Okay, if you could have a Titan Reference for free would you take it, or would you pay $2,000 for a Panny to do the same thing.

The same is true about sports cars. Would you take an Enzo for free or would you pay 2 million for one? Again assuming you really like Ferraris.

Not to get off topic, but as you go up the projector technology ladder, the picture quality, motion reproduction, the colors, the black levels, the gamma, the features, and on and on, get better. The act of researching and then going out and viewing with your own eyes will let you determine how you vote with your own dollars. That is just the way of the world. At least a capitalist World

We all have a limited amount of dollars, and we try to juggle this ever changing formula to see how our wants, needs and desires intersect with our self imposed budget. Whatever that limit is, is irrelevant. The fun is going out looking at all of these technological wonders, be they ESL panels, SS or Tube Amps, turntables, or projectors and trying to find the right equation where you get as close to your nirvana as you can, without going over your self imposed $ limit or your wife's $ limit.

And as someone else already said, for about $10K and in my case now for $8K you can pretty much get to the level where you are 90 to 98 % equal to those in the 20K to 50K range. I think if you look at the $2K projectors and directly compare to the $20k to $50K projectors you will understand what I mean. Again everyone is different, as in sensitivity to color wheels, fringing, black level, etc. so there is no one size fits all at the lower end of the spectrum, if there was there would not be an upper spectrum.

And or maybe it is just possible that you just always wanted to own a movie house and run your movies on a really big screen, say 50 feet diagonally with all your friends there, you would need a DPI projector to do that