Price for new panels (Request, Odyssey)
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repman
Well-known member
I just paid $650 for Sequel II panels as a reference , yours are larger panels.
You have to look at it as you basically get new speakers of that caliber for $900.
My new panels sound terrific and it was well worth doing.
You have to look at it as you basically get new speakers of that caliber for $900.
My new panels sound terrific and it was well worth doing.
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robertawillisjr
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Ten years ago I paid $700 for Quest panels.
Horchem1972
Well-known member
All the panels have gone up in the last year.Be glad you do not own CLS or Monolith's.They went up to $1600--ouch.
Sambob2
Well-known member
Wow, that is a lot! My ReQuests are still in great shape, purchased new in 99 and hopefully will stay that way. But I realize eventually that I will have to replace them.
Look at it this way: The Odyssey originally cost $6500 per pair, which is closer to $8000 in today's dollars. So the price they are charging is a little over 10% of the original cost of the speakers in today's dollars. That doesn't seem unreasonable for what is basically a new mid-range and high-range driver for the speakers.
Jimna
Well-known member
I like your by the pound analogy better, Rich. 
I washed my panels (actually one of them) yesterday. I will put them on tonight to see what effect (if any) it had on the sound quality. If that doesnt help I might go with recoating the panel with the conductive fluid. In the worst case I will have to get new panels anyways...
The only problem is I am thinking about picking up the Odysseys and keeping both ReQuests and Odysseys
Any thoughts of having both in HT mode? Which ones should go as fronts?
Regards,
Greg
The only problem is I am thinking about picking up the Odysseys and keeping both ReQuests and Odysseys
Any thoughts of having both in HT mode? Which ones should go as fronts?
Regards,
Greg
robertawillisjr
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I am interested in knowing how you plan to recoat the panel and what conductive fluid you will use.
The only problem is I am thinking about picking up the Odysseys and keeping both ReQuests and Odysseys
Any thoughts of having both in HT mode? Which ones should go as fronts?
Regards,
Greg
Please clarify.There is this company in Australia that produces this fuild. If you go to Tweaks forum there is a nice thread about rebuild of the Sequel columns.
What I meant is that I would pick up Odysseys that I can buy and keep the ReQuests that I have now. The only problem I would have is how to place them in the HT environment, which ones in the front, which ones in the back, placement around the room, how will they match, is it overkill, etc....
Greg
robertawillisjr
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I missed that one. Thanks
j beede
Member
That's right... I just got a quote today for my CLS... $1500 + $75 shipping. I'd happily pay $700 plus shipping to have M-L rebuild my existing panels. Wishful thinking... I guess I could see $1575 or so if that included updating my interface boxes. Okay, I guess I should be happy that they will even support my antique speakers at all. Back around 1985 Acoustat updated my interfaces with new caps, wiring and dc bias supply--gratis... I got a tour of the factory in Ft. Lauderdale to boot!
i was quoted $275 to have my odyssey panels rebuilt with a smoked mylar from a guy that has been doing it for 20+ years. I opted to buy new panels from ML for $900 and will eventually send my old panels to get redone so i can have some spares
zaphod
Well-known member
i was quoted $275 to have my odyssey panels rebuilt with a smoked mylar from a guy that has been doing it for 20+ years. I opted to buy new panels from ML for $900 and will eventually send my old panels to get redone so i can have some spares
have you contact info for that fellow? might be a real smart thing to do with my old CLS panels when i replace them
j beede
Member
The CLS were $2500 new, so $1575 for panels seems huge. I would love to get a new set of panels for 10% of original MSRP! Even 20% or 30% would be great. I wouldn't think it costs much more to make a set of CLS panels than a set of Aerius panels. I am also surprised by the number of people reporting wrinkled diaphragms--even with new or nearly new speakers. Anyone successfully remove wrinkles with a hair dryer or heat gun?
The CLS were $2500 when they came out in 1985. In today's dollars, that amounts to $4,900 dollars. The current price of $1575 is about 32% of that cost, so why are you complaining? You said even 30% would be great! If you are going to compare the cost of new panels vs. the cost of the original speakers, you have to take inflation into account.
While these prices may seem high to you, they are not completely out of line when you look at inflation-adjusted numbers. I think instead of complaining about the prices, we should be commending ML for continuing to support these legacy models, something they have indicated they may not do into the future.
Quality control of the current generation is a separate issue altogether and I am not sure why you conflate the two in your comment.
Horchem1972
Well-known member
First and foremost I am glad that they still produce panels for legacy products.Even though I respect your opinion,I do think your reasoning is flawed.Your Summits originally had a MSRP of around 9-10 thousand dollars.Therefore by your accounts it is acceptable to charge you $2700-$3000 for a set of Summit panels.The quality control is an issue when you are talking about panels.He may be worried that after spending that much money he will have the same issues with his panels.You cannot have it both ways Rich.You call out people for being a Fanboy,but you are acting like one in this case.
j beede
Member
Of course I have no data, but I suspect that ML sells not too many sets of replacement panels for the CLS at $1575 per set. Given that a set of CLS with good panels is worth maybe $800 resale, spending $1575 for a new set isn't exactly economically sensible. On the other hand I probably would spend $600 + $75 shipping to have my panels rebuilt. As someone who has built ESL panels from scratch, I find the nylon coated CLS stators to be nicely made and eminently recyclable. The cost of rebuilding is very small. Why ML chooses scrapping old panels versus rebuilding I do not know.
And that point is not to be taken lightly. The CLS speakers were first manufactured in 1985 -- that's twenty-five years ago, a quarter of a century. There is no guarantee they will continue to support these models, as they have made clear. So if they do, I don't think it is unreasonable to charge a good markup on the cost of the panels to make it worth their hassle. The older the speaker, the more markup I would consider to be reasonable.
No, you are taking someone else's reasoning in an out-of-context example and trying to apply it to my situation. First of all, JBeede was the one who said 30% would be a reasonable cost to him. I made no comment on whether that was a reasonable percentage in my own mind. I simply showed him that if he used inflation-adjusted numbers, that he was paying 30% of the original cost of his speakers in today's dollars. My point being that you can't expect ML to charge prices based on 1985 numbers as if there had been no inflation in the meantime. That is not reasonable.
Second, his example refers to speakers that are twenty-five years old and a panel type and technology that ML hasn't produced for many years. I would expect a much larger markup on a replacement panel like that than one that is from the current generation of speakers.
To put your example in the proper context of my reasoning: I purchased my Summits new in 2007 for $10,000. If my Summit panels needed replacing in two years (after the warranty runs out), I would expect to pay a lot less for replacement panels than if they needed replacing in 2029. By the time they are twenty-five years old, I might expect to pay $6,000 for a new set of panels (that's 30% of the cost of them new, adjusted for 25 years of inflation). That would not seem unreasonable to me at that time.
I call out people for blindly supporting the company in the face of facts which indicate that support is unwarranted. Likewise, I call out people when the facts show they unfairly criticize ML because of their own unreasonable expectations of what the company should do, as in this case. I don't see that as a double standard. I see it as using facts, reason, and honest analysis to come to your conclusions on a given topic, rather than blind faith or blind skepticism.
The electrostat panel is the primary component of an electrostatic speaker. It is the only speaker driver in a CLS speaker. To pretend that you should be able to get a replacement for it twenty-five years later, for a mere 15% to 30% of the cost of the original speaker, is just absurd in my mind.
Please feel free to point out any flaws in my logic.
