Preamp recommendations

[Tmort]

I’m at that point where I am upgrading my front end. My current preamp / streamer is the NAD C658, which has been fine but is my weak link in my opinion.
I’m receiving today the Hifi Rose RS150B streamer / DAC, so that will handle those duties.
I also have a phono preamp I really like (black ice audio F159, it’s a tube hybrid).
So the preamp doesn’t NEED to have phono preamp or DAC capabilities.
Amps are a Sanders Magtech for the panels and Anthem MCA225mk2 for the woofers, running ML Classic 9’s.
The preamp should have balanced inputs (for the rose unit), and balanced outputs.
I do love the “sound” my phono preamp provides and I suspect that’s at least partially “tube” related, so definitely open to a tube preamp (the primaluna evo 400 and McIntosh C8 intrigue me). But I’m not against an all SS unit.
I listen to a wide variety of music, but really love the way modern jazz and well recorded rock sounds on our speakers.
Used is preferred.
Budget is $3,000 give or take a bit.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I'm still loving my Eversolo DMP-A8.

It's about $2,000 and has everything you mentioned, but would need a separate phono preamp section.

 

[Tmort]

I'm still loving my Eversolo DMP-A8.

It's about $2,000 and has everything you mentioned, but would need a separate phono preamp section.

You apparently didn’t read my post, I have a new streamer and I have a phono preamp.
I’m looking at preamps for the amps.

 

[amey01]

You apparently didn’t read my post, I have a new streamer and I have a phono preamp.
I’m looking at preamps for the amps.

Why don't you just use the HifiRose as the preamp then? They have analogue-in, don't they?

 

[Tmort]

Why don't you just use the HifiRose as the preamp then? They have analogue-in, don't they?

I will try that plus with NAD as preamp e but from what I’ve read the sound is better with a preamp versus just using the rose unit as one.

 

[DanR]

Tmort I like the way you are thinking that MagTech deserves a nice equal quality preamp, I’m one of those that believes the preamp is a very important part of the chain. I’m going to throw a suggestion out there and tell you to look at Backert Labs Rhumba preamp. https://backertlabs.com/rhumba-1-3-tube-preamplifier/
Yep I’m biased I’ve had one for 6 years now and it’s THE BEST SOUNDING preamp I’ve heard on the Logans, and I’ll say now too not that it means much I’m not a fan of McIntosh preamps. The problem I see is the Rhumba is a bit out of your budget, and going along with the Backert bias I’ve been a customer of his since I sent my Conrad Johnson PV-12 yep an oldie that I sent Bob and his son to put there mods on and it came back a completely better in all ways unit, still have it. A d like everything else I can’t believe how the cost has gone up I got my Rhumba for under 3k new and they are 5k now. Anyways that’s my 2 cents worth take it for what you will. And obviously look on the used market but they VERY rarely come up, people just don’t get rid of them. Have a nice holiday season.

 

[DanR]

Well Tmort there is a unit on Audiogon right now it might even be in your budget. Buying used you could get it if you didn’t like it re sell it I would think for very little loss.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...humba-1-3-stereo-tube-preamplifier-70454-tube

Here’s the music room’s link, I’ve bought and sold from them in the past and had zero problems with them they always offered fair prices both ways buying or selling. I’m guessing you could get that unit for 3k
https://tmraudio.com/components/preamplifiers/backert-labs-rhumba-1-3-stereo-tube-preamplifier/

 

[Tmort]

Well Tmort there is a unit on Audiogon right now it might even be in your budget. Buying used you could get it if you didn’t like it re sell it I would think for very little loss.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...humba-1-3-stereo-tube-preamplifier-70454-tube

Here’s the music room’s link, I’ve bought and sold from them in the past and had zero problems with them they always offered fair prices both ways buying or selling. I’m guessing you could get that unit for 3k
https://tmraudio.com/components/preamplifiers/backert-labs-rhumba-1-3-stereo-tube-preamplifier/

Thank you for the response! I can’t say I’m a McIntosh fan, never owned one, the C8 is a sexy little beast though and at least tickled the eyes, I’ve yet to hear one. I’ll check up on this Rhumba unit though, it certainly ticks the boxes, I’ve just never heard of them.

 

[DanR]

I’ve been a customer of Bob’s for years now check his company out. His units are hand built by him and his son. They both do high quality work and have for years. Their partner Andy is a musician and he is great to talk with as far as what tubes he likes and has great suggestions for tubes. These circuits use 2 12au7 tubes which there are plenty of old QUALITY tubes for reasonable prices. The 12au7 is my favorite preamp tube out there so that part is a no brainer for me. You can tailor the sound somewhat with different tubes and they’re a piece of cake to change out.

 

[MyCu]

I’m at that point where I am upgrading my front end. My current preamp / streamer is the NAD C658, which has been fine but is my weak link in my opinion.
I’m receiving today the Hifi Rose RS150B streamer / DAC, so that will handle those duties.
I also have a phono preamp I really like (black ice audio F159, it’s a tube hybrid).
So the preamp doesn’t NEED to have phono preamp or DAC capabilities.
Amps are a Sanders Magtech for the panels and Anthem MCA225mk2 for the woofers, running ML Classic 9’s.
The preamp should have balanced inputs (for the rose unit), and balanced outputs.
I do love the “sound” my phono preamp provides and I suspect that’s at least partially “tube” related, so definitely open to a tube preamp (the primaluna evo 400 and McIntosh C8 intrigue me). But I’m not against an all SS unit.
I listen to a wide variety of music, but really love the way modern jazz and well recorded rock sounds on our speakers.
Used is preferred.
Budget is $3,000 give or take a bit.

Hello

I have the Sanders MagTech amp, paired with the McIntosh C2500 and I love the way it looks and sounds! There is a great deal of audio detail that the preamp brings out. I am not familiar with the other brands but I am happy with my set-up...

<mike>

 

[amey01]

Why don't you just use the HifiRose as the preamp then? They have analogue-in, don't they?

The Rose is a decent bit of kit.

The best sound will come from using the best preamp - whether that's the Rose, or something else.

But for your budget of USD$3000, I'd say you're pushing 5h1t up hill to find something that will out-perform the Rose - I'm sure it's possible (and you've got to consider personal preference too) - but my bet would be that there are other parts of your system that you could put this energy and money to greater benefit.

And compounded by the fact that there is no need for any of this. (ie. You have a preamp you like (F159 [pretty cool too, by the way]); and the Rose has analogue-in).

Even if you find something better for your budget - you're still behind the 8-ball - because you're adding another gain stage (usually something people try to avoid) - so you have to make up for what that takes away.

And don't forget, there's opportunity cost too - what you spend on a (ostensibly unnecessary) preamp - you are unable to spend on a potentially more worthwhile upgrade.

 

[DanR]

The Rose is a decent bit of kit.

The best sound will come from using the best preamp - whether that's the Rose, or something else.

But for your budget of USD$3000, I'd say you're pushing 5h1t up hill to find something that will out-perform the Rose - I'm sure it's possible (and you've got to consider personal preference too) - but my bet would be that there are other parts of your system that you could put this energy and money to greater benefit.

And compounded by the fact that there is no need for any of this. (ie. You have a preamp you like (F159 [pretty cool too, by the way]); and the Rose has analogue-in).

Even if you find something better for your budget - you're still behind the 8-ball - because you're adding another gain stage (usually something people try to avoid) - so you have to make up for what that takes away.

And don't forget, there's opportunity cost too - what you spend on a (ostensibly unnecessary) preamp - you are unable to spend on a potentially more worthwhile upgrade.

After reading your response I went and read the Absolute Sound review of the hi-fi rose unit, and I think you hit the nail on the head. The hi-fi rose should work very well as a preamp, now you said in the response he has a preamp he likes already in the black ice unit but that unit is a phono preamp only not a linestage like tmort is referring to in his post. Besides that I totally agree that the $$$ could be used for other items that may make bigger improvements in the overall system. After looking at that hi-fi rose unit and reading the review it sure looks like a great piece that he has added to his system and should be given a chance to prove all it can do before adding another layer of equipment that may not be needed.

 

[Lightloopy]

I was looking for a replacement for my aging CJ Premier 16 and Stephen Monte at Quest for Sound loaned me the Backert Rhumba Extreme and although pricey, a stellar performer. It's been in the system for several years and no complaints.

 

[twich54]

You apparently didn’t read my post, I have a new streamer and I have a phono preamp.
I’m looking at preamps for the amps.

If you already have a phono pre you 'only' need a Linestage ...........

 

[amey01]

If you already have a phono pre you 'only' need a Linestage ...........

My point was, he doesn't need the linestage. The R150B is a $10k streamer/DAC/preamp, replete with analogue-in.

Why would the OP buy that? If he wanted an analogue preamp, he could have bought a cheap Bluesound or MusicCast, DAC and pre.

But when you spend $10k on what is for all analyses a brilliant digital and analogue preamp - why would you want to go and add a second gain stage for sh1ts and giggles?

ARC LS28 (just to use a basic analogue preamp as an example) is similar price here in Australia. Why would anyone go out and buy an LS28 - then say "I've got $3k to add a second preamp after the LS28". It defies logic.

 

[Tmort]

Well I can say I don’t care for the Rose unit as a preamp, even compared to the NAD C658, it’s too harsh and analytical sounding, the NAD is warmer and smoother….reinforcing my thoughts that it will benefit from a good preamp. The Prima luna evo 400 gets rave reviews and short of having a headphone connection checks all the boxes. Suggestions that I maybe spend bucks elsewhere I’m not understanding, my room is too small for anything larger than classic 9’s. I’ve a magtech on the panels which many consider amp nirvana for stats, a great Anthem amp on the woofers, I also have a nice B&W sub, a technodek turntable and Hana ML moving coil cartridge (so the analog honestly still sounds a bit better than the Rose, but I attribute some of that to the tube warmth from the black ice phono preamp).

 

[Tmort]

My point was, he doesn't need the linestage. The R150B is a $10k streamer/DAC/preamp, replete with analogue-in.

Why would the OP buy that? If he wanted an analogue preamp, he could have bought a cheap Bluesound or MusicCast, DAC and pre.

But when you spend $10k on what is for all analyses a brilliant digital and analogue preamp - why would you want to go and add a second gain stage for sh1ts and giggles?

ARC LS28 (just to use a basic analogue preamp as an example) is similar price here in Australia. Why would anyone go out and buy an LS28 - then say "I've got $3k to add a second preamp after the LS28". It defies logic.

Just for reference the RS150B is $5k new not $10k, I got it used for $3k.
While the reviews are pretty unilateral positive of the unit as a streamer and DAC (it also does some really nice video), most suggest you connect it to a preamp (in which case it’s a fixed output).
Can you use it as a preamp?
Yes, but as I just noted I don’t care for the sound it produces, using the front end of the NAD was an improvement and that one is no huge head turner as a preamp, but certainly a decent one.

 

[amey01]

Well I can say I don’t care for the Rose unit as a preamp,

For analogue, ok.

But you understand that you can't bypass the Rose gain/output stage, as least when using the Rose as the source, right?

All you're going to do is set the Rose preamp to fixed-gain - then cascade the same sonic signature into a second preamp / gain stage. Worse than pointless!

If you don't like the sonic signature of the Rose, I'm not sure why you bought it. But we all make mistakes. Maybe you need to look at moving it on and reconsider the front-end of your system?

Cheap streamer > pocket-rocket DAC (such as RME ADI-2) > and spend the rest (not $3k, but now you'll have $8-9K) on a really nice analogue preamp.

(just my suggestion, since you solicited everyone's opinions)

most suggest you connect it to a preamp

Dunno - I just looked up the TAS review of your streamer - it would beg to differ:

Used solely as a preamp, with my tuner as a source, its sound quality was superior to that of the two other preamps I used in this same setup, one costing significantly more than the RS150B.

 

[Tmort]

For analogue, ok.

But you understand that you can't bypass the Rose gain/output stage, as least when using the Rose as the source, right?

All you're going to do is set the Rose preamp to fixed-gain - then cascade the same sonic signature into a second preamp / gain stage. Worse than pointless!

If you don't like the sonic signature of the Rose, I'm not sure why you bought it. But we all make mistakes. Maybe you need to look at moving it on and reconsider the front-end of your system?

Cheap streamer > pocket-rocket DAC (such as RME ADI-2) > and spend the rest (not $3k, but now you'll have $8-9K) on a really nice analogue preamp.

(just my suggestion, since you solicited everyone's opinions)



Dunno - I just looked up the TAS review of your streamer - it would beg to differ:

Trust me I read the TAS review before buying the unit so I hoped it might function OK as a preamp too, but it was bought primarily as a streaming DAC with better performance than what is in the NAD. In that regard it’s a definite step up. It’s no cheap streamer and pocket DAC kind of set up.
I wasn’t expecting it to be “my preamp” even though some say it functions acceptably as that too.
To my ears it wasn’t as sweet sounding as the NAD and that was consistent with some other reviews. Hey, not everyone likes the same “sound” a system might produce.
In speaking with sellers of the Rose (and hearing one that blew me away), they don’t pretend that a serious Hifi system would use the unit as anything but a streaming DAC. To a man those familiar with the unit, they loved it, but run into a preamp.
So please don’t misconstrue my opinion of the unit, I do not dislike the sound of the unit one little bit…just not as a preamp.

 

[amey01]

So please don’t misconstrue my opinion of the unit, I do not dislike the sound of the unit one little bit…just not as a preamp.

I'm not misconstruing anything - you asked on a forum for my opinion, so you got it. Take it or leave it. I wouldn't expect anyone to blindly follow what a stranger on the internet says.

You've obviously got lots of different opinions. No two will agree - but hey, that's why you ask on a public forum, right?

At the end of the day, it's your system - so you make the call.

You don't have to justify anything to me - I hold no control over how you architect your system. If you already know what you want - why ask on a public forum?

Just understand that if you don't use the Rose as a preamp, you're not bypassing anything (I don't think??) - It's still a preamp, it's still a gain stage in your system - just a fixed level one.

If you don't like the sound of it, then you need to use digital-out into a outboard DAC, or digital preamp.