Preamp done, Amp done... Source/DAC next. Esoteric??

[bonzo]

Verity make sure it is the newer range - Leonore upwards, and not the PArsifal one. The midrange of the Leonore flows warmly like Logans. Vandys are bassier, more neutral than Veritys, and can disappear. Vandys the bass can be tuned in an analog fashion to the room, so they don't boom, and the Veritys somehow sound the same in different rooms. Just don't boom.

Since you are looking at CLX, please do look at ANALYSIS AUDIO USA - CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA - 980.237.1988
www.AnalysisAudioUSA.com

His name is Mike and he will surely have one in your area. Ask for a demo of Amphtryon or the Omega. Btw, just noticed you are Chicago. I am UChicago

 

[Joey_V]

Ah yes, I'm in Chicago and today's the day I finally listen to the Stradivari.

Should I listen to the Aida too? Kinda scared to listen to something not in my price range and tainting my perspective of things...

Should I?

 

[Bernard]

Joey, I suggest that you also take along minimally-miked recordings of acoustic instruments, perhaps something on the Chesky label.

 

[bonzo]

Joey, I suggest that you also take along minimally-miked recordings of acoustic instruments, perhaps something on the Chesky label.

HI Bernard, why is that?

 

[Bernard]

HI Bernard, why is that?

Kedar, it's because I find it easier to evaluate equipment with recordings that are not heavily-processed (most pop music). As well, with acoustic instruments you know what they are supposed to sound like (more or less, as I couldn't tell the difference between a Steinway and a Bözendofer), especially if the recording preserves the acoustics of the venue. I suggest that you go out and buy Chesky's "Entre Amigos" by Rosa Passos and Ron Carter as an illustration.

Case in point, I would not use the heavy metal version of "Pictures" that you posted recently (don't like it btw).

 

[bonzo]

Oh sure, I wouldn't use that either. I find it a good fun listen.

So let me know what you think of my audition set.

Live Stairway to heaven - lets me get midrange, tonality.
Cecilia Bartoli - Get air and opera vocals
Caron Nome from rigoletto, quietness and if there is anything shrill going on it comes out here. Ideally this should just sound soft and mellifluous
Bach Cantata 140, chorus gives a good sense of separation.
Mussogorsky Pictures - Dynamics, separation. It's piano version gives the piano.
Sometimes i add a bit of jazz to get sax impact.

 

[Bernard]

Kedar, it sounds like a good mix of acoustical stuff. One recording you should get is Orff's "Carmina Burana", for full orchestral bombast; it's a piece I love. At the very end, just before the finale, before the chorus launches into "O Fortuna", there is a climax, with an orchestra bell floating above the music. It's interesting to hear that bell in the middle of it all. I have the Ozawa version.

Of course, for truly serious evaluation you should use vinyl. :devil:

 

[GaryG]

Joey, I suggest that you also take along minimally-miked recordings of acoustic instruments, perhaps something on the Chesky label.

Bernard, great point. Joey seems to be a sophisticated buyer so I assumed he was doing this but for completeness of the thread this is a valuable point. I use piano solo's from Liszt, Chopin, Debussy. Don't like classical? learn to like at least one test piece. In well recorded classical piano recordings the piano sounds like a piano. Acoustic guitar solos are useful. Some Miles Davis gives you some brass that your ear can remember for long periods of time. I'm a bass freak and many well regarded speakers show weakness in the bass. Anything by Christian McBride will give you something to use. I am particularly fond of his version of "Night Train" from the "Gettin' to it" album. This is a solo with Christian using what seems to be every method of sound reproduction that can be done on a Bass for Night Train. Of course drum solo's are a must. Yes complex pieces are also a must but I get the most out of solo's including voice when I'm looking at what a speaker can do.

Gary

 

[User211]

Also a little concerned if I am hearing the sound of the Kevlar driver and if this is a coloration I am picking up.

Almost certainly. Not only that, but this unit has to integrate with a treble unit made out of something completely different. It'll fail. That's the problem I find with ALL mixed material/technology speakers. They ALL ultimately fall over on this point. Without exception pretty much. Even the best designs like MBLs, ML hybrids, Dali Megalines (haven't heard them but they WILL fail - too experienced on this point to know they won't), Focals... the list goes on and on.

Different material resonate with different characteristics. It is just plain old physics. The cabinets are another problem, but usually it is a consistent problem as the same material is used throughout.

Large planar magnetics and full range stats don't have this issue. Full range stats lack dynamics, however, and fail when mated with dynamic subs. Planar magnetics don't need to mate with subs. They can go low enough.

End of education It is all as obvious all hell, really. But unfortunately for many manufacturers, that doesn't make it untrue.

That said, some find they'd rather live with the obvious blending issues than live with the lack of dynamics a full or fullish range ESL gives. And planar magnetics won't be everyone's cup of tea, either. For me, though, they fail much less than most designs.

 

[User211]

Joey, if you really, really like image placement the Tannoy Kingdom Royales were doing a superb job at that at a recent show here. Some of that was probably due to the Thrax amps and MSB DAC, but in the imaging department they really were top notch. They were in most departments, TBH.

But ultimately they fail. Like everything:ROFL: Sorry, but it is true

 

[Joey_V]

I am starting to listen to the Strads. My god, the Aida is freaking beast!

I just came from demoing the Wilson's and Bowers back to back for 2 hours.

It's been a great day.

 

[Gordon Gray]

For me, though, they fail much less than most designs.

A very pragmatic, practical view of our hobby.

 

[amey01]

Anything by Christian McBride will give you something to use.

Wow - yes, fully agree. "Brown Funk" from "Super Bass" is one of my long standing test tracks, and is also a fantastic test track for attack, macro dynamics and imaging.

 

[Bernard]

In well recorded classical piano recordings the piano sounds like a piano.

Agreed; I enjoy piano solos, besides. Don't forget the famous "Nojima Plays Liszt".

Do you have any XRCD recordings? I find them very well done.

 

[GaryG]

Do you have any XRCD recordings? I find them very well done.

I do have a number of them and the quality is excellent. So while I'm in the test music for auditioning equipment mode let me recommend the xrcd "Best Audiophile Voices". This is a 15 song collection of various female vocalists and they are all exquisite.

Gary

 

[Joey_V]

So, I listened to Magnepan, Bowers Diamonds, and Wilson Sasha 2... for about 2-2.5 hours today. This was the first time I was able to back to back a Wilson and a Diamond. I was very happy with the fact that I was able to listen to both brands in a single store.

Then I travelled to a different store to listen to the Strads and I also met up with the Aidas. The store had Magico Q5, Avalons, Dynaudio, and T+A among others.

My thoughts:
1. Magnepan - clear and coherent, but thin sounding overall. You can hear, but you can't feel. Not for me.

2. Voice reproduction - recall that I mentioned in the past that I was beginning to think that I was hearing an FST/kevlar coloration... I think I finally understand. The coloration I was hearing was when I compared it to the Wilsons. However, the interesting thing I made out today was that the Magnepan, the BW Diamonds, and the Strads actually SHARED a similar vocal reproduction tone. The only speaker that differed was the Wilsons (more muted). I heard this same phenomenon on the Alexias last week (as I did with the Sasha 2 today). If 3 high end speaker brands reproduce voices in a similar manner with a similar tone and 1 brand differs, then the idea is that the 3 brands are probably less colored than the 1 brand that sounds different (i.e. the 3 brands were less colored, while the Wilsons had it's own sound and to me sounded more colored).

3. The Wilson Sasha 2 just did not have the midrange of the BW Diamonds. You hear and feel more with the Diamonds. The instruments in the background were clearer and had more emotion. I went back and forth at least 6 or so times between the two just to clarify my thoughts on this. You can hear the harmonics better on the Diamonds and the song was just much more involving on the Diamonds than on the Wilsons. Not that the Wilsons were bad, but the Diamonds really do wonders.

In the end, however, I thought that the Wilson Sasha 2 were very dynamic but the midrange magic just is not there. The voice reproduction sounded muted in comparison.

I thought the Diamonds (did not hear the 800 today), were very dynamic and the midrange magic is very good... but the voice was still not perfect for my liking.

The Magnepans - not for me, sounds good but not for me. Voices were similar on the Maggies as on the Diamonds, interestingly enough.

But man... the Strads.... :music:

 

[Joey_V]

Some pics.

Pics do not do them justice. The Aidas in particular are MASSIVE. The system looks like a normal system in the picture, but if you look closely, that's because the entire system is massive. From the massive amps to the large rack in the middle.... but when you see the small dynaudio floor stander next to it, you can tell how big these speakers truly are.

And the Strads... fantastic speaker. Lived up to my expectations.

 

[Bernard]

I do have a number of them and the quality is excellent. So while I'm in the test music for auditioning equipment mode let me recommend the xrcd "Best Audiophile Voices". This is a 15 song collection of various female vocalists and they are all exquisite.

Gary

I have that CD, but while it's excellent it's not an XRCD.

I put it on, and while listening to it I couldn't help but wonder how Joey would rate my SL3s. They still sound great even though they're long in the tooth. On Jane Monheit's "Over the Rainbow" the speakers really disappear.

 

[bonzo]

Bernard, great point. Joey seems to be a sophisticated buyer so I assumed he was doing this but for completeness of the thread this is a valuable point. I use piano solo's from Liszt, Chopin, Debussy. Don't like classical? learn to like at least one test piece. In well recorded classical piano recordings the piano sounds like a piano. Acoustic guitar solos are useful. Some Miles Davis gives you some brass that your ear can remember for long periods of time. I'm a bass freak and many well regarded speakers show weakness in the bass. Anything by Christian McBride will give you something to use. I am particularly fond of his version of "Night Train" from the "Gettin' to it" album. This is a solo with Christian using what seems to be every method of sound reproduction that can be done on a Bass for Night Train. Of course drum solo's are a must. Yes complex pieces are also a must but I get the most out of solo's including voice when I'm looking at what a speaker can do.

Gary

I have those Audiophile voices XRCDs but don't use them. They make things sound good and I can't make out anything about the speaker

For piano I haven't found anything that comes even 20% close to the Analysis Audio. Boxes do especially badly because the cabinets constipate the piano sound. Same with hybrids. Maybe the CLX will be good but haven't tried that

 

[asindc]

So, I'm trying to collect units for my upcoming system.

I have acquired a Cary SLP-05 preamp. I have also just recently this week acquired the Cary 211 Founders Edition mono blocks for my system as well (oh my goodness that was a heavy set of amps)... along with some SRA Ohio class amp stands.

Now, I'm looking at the source.

Initially I was looking at Cary 306 SACD Pro as an all in one system, it has a cdplayer, it also has a DAC unit with digital inputs that I could use a server type system on - similar to what I've done in the past.

However, I have stumbled onto a pair of Esoterics.

Does anyone here have first hand LONG TERM experience with Esoterics? I am looking at these Esoteric P03/D03 units. I know there are newer P01/D01 and P02/D02 since about 2-3 years ago, but those are essentially unreachable in price.

Thanks!!

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hi-fi-plus-the-esoteric-p-03-sacd-playerd-03-dac/

View attachment 17289

You can probably surmise from my signature and previous posts that I'm a bit of a Cary fanboy, so my comments should be viewed in that context. A very good friend of mine, whose system I'm most familiar with other than my own, sold his 306 SACD Pro to get the K03. He runs ARC Ref pres and Pass amps into CLXs. The KO3 is a substantial step up from the 306, but it is diminishing return territory. The K03 is more refined across the board, but the 306 more than holds its own. I still have my 306, of course, and the primary reason I haven't sought out another DAC is because the addition of the Berkeley USB converter dramatically improves the 306. It is easily the equivalent of a DAC upgrade. Aside from upgrading from Vantages to Spires, the Berkeley USB is without doubt the best upgrade I've made in the past five years. We haven't done a side-by-side comparison of the 306/Berkeley combo vs. the K03 yet, but I can confidently say the Berkeley has closed the gap between the 306 and the K03 to the extent that if I was starting from stratch and considering the two options, the decision might be tough, given that the combo can be had for $6000 used (factoring in a used AES/EBU cable of commiserate quality) while the lowest used price I've seen for the K03 is $7500. If you are so inclined, I encourage you to check out the Berkeley USB converter with the 306 or some other non-USB DAC. I think you would find the experience worthwhile. Now the K01 is probably another matter altogether...