Original CLS or CLSII with IIz panels, what would you buy?

[Don Camillo]

Hi all,

As a highend freak I listened to many shows and ultimate setups.

Now I would like to buy a set of ML's; the CLS or the CLSII. And would like your opinion.

I have read a lot lately here on this great forum, so I know my amp should have plenty power, and CLS bass is very dry (which I prefer to ported bass), but my room has a gain at 35hz (lots of concrete here) so I probably wont need a sub.

I have a hybrid amp (LSA Standard 2x150w @8 and 2x300w @4 ohms. And I listen to a lot of different music, from classical to pop. Also to a lot of good high end recordings, but not always.

I am thinking about original CLS (before '90) or the CLSII with IIz panels.

What would be the better choice? (in terms of musicality, and so on).

How can you see the diferences in a panel, and when its new and not cleaned.
Would a '88 CLS with new z panels be worse then the original (new) panels?

Thanks in advance!
DC

 

[FoxMulder]

First off , the CLSII, CLSIIA and the CLSIIZ all use the same replacement panel. The CLSI uses a different panel. The difference is in the electronics from version to version.

I was a Martin Logan dealer, (back in the day) and had side by side, in my showroom, the CLSI and CLSII, then the CLSII and the CLSIIA, then the CLSIIA and the CLSIIZ. We would sell off the older demo pair at a discount after the new model came out, but always had both pair for a while. So in the same room with the same gear, we were able to compare models. I also have personally owned each of the different versions.

IMHO, (again this just my own personal opinion), I preferred the CLSIIA out of all of them. I think when they went to the "Z" version, which was mainly to make the speaker more amplifier friendly, it lost a little of the magic or sparkle that the CLSIIA had.

I've had many heated discussions with audiophiles over the years about this. Of course, everyone has a different take. I'm pretty sure Brad (Brad225) had both the IIA and the IIZ in his system and he preferred the IIZ. Any of the CLS models/versions are excellent, so you really can't go wrong.

Welcome to the CLS club my friend, it's a fantastic ride...

 

[Don Camillo]

Thank you for your great answer. Very helpfull.

I think everything should be in balance. So many of the opinions are probably also because of other equipment and rooms and of course also personal taste.

So even with a very old CLS and the right balanced/matched setup I couldnt go wrong, It could sound better then a CLSIIA with a setup that is less well matched, right?

I read somewhere that the older 1st CLS types would be prefered by some purists, but thats probably not true.

For the CLSII I would have to pay 50% more, so thats quit a bit.

How can I see if a panel is really changed and not just cleaned?

 

[MPS]

Thank you for your great answer. Very helpfull.

I think everything should be in balance. So many of the opinions are probably also because of other equipment and rooms and of course also personal taste.

So even with a very old CLS and the right balanced/matched setup I couldnt go wrong, It could sound better then a CLSIIA with a setup that is less well matched, right?

I read somewhere that the older 1st CLS types would be prefered by some purists, but thats probably not true.

For the CLSII I would have to pay 50% more, so thats quit a bit.

How can I see if a panel is really changed and not just cleaned?

Panel serial number?

 

[Don Camillo]

Oh oke, so there is a serial number on it?

I just found out that the cheaper CLS were sold, so now the other ones are left. Which are a little too much for me now.

You got a great setup MPS, do you also have pics of the new speakers?

 

[MPS]

serial number decoder

I'm in the middle of re-organizing my room, will post new photo tomorrow if things work out nicely

 

[MPS]

You got a great setup MPS, do you also have pics of the new speakers?

Added new photo.. http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?5430-System-226-(Odyssey)&p=156937&viewfull=1#post156937

 

[Don Camillo]

They look great! And the setup with the difusors too!

 

[Don Camillo]

numbers

At a pair I can purchase at a local dealer somewhere the serialnumbers on the stats say: CS1JI002

So that should be a set from 1998 right?

Which CLS version is it then? the CLSII? or CLSIIa?

Also CLS 3140 is mentioned.

Thanks in advance.

 

[FoxMulder]

Don, those would be a pair of the Original CLS speakers. The panel serial number you posted is CS"1"JI002. The "1" is for the original series. The panel serial number would have a "2" if it was a II series.

The serial numbers you posted would from September 1998 and the 2nd pair made that month (002).

The CLS 3140 is the serial number of the electronics.

Also the panels look different:

CLS Original Panel: http://www.martinlogan.com/products/cls

CLS II Series Panel: http://www.martinlogan.com/products/clsiiz

 

[Don Camillo]

Thanks Foxmulder,

I am a bit confused. I thought that the '98 was more recent and therefore it would be a CLSII.
As also the 2nd link you gave says the IIz was launched in '92.

Were the 1st CLS's also sold/built for years, while there was a newer II model??

So these would be the II panels (see image). However the statnumber is for the CLS1.

I can recall that the owner said someone from his company changed the panels for II'z versions some years ago.

So I gues its a CLS 1 like you said, but with later panels. And probably original electronics from a CLS1 '98.

Is there a electronics serialnumber pdf also?

Thanks

 

[FoxMulder]

Don,
Sorry for the confusion because I'm now confused The picture you show above is indeed a pair of II series panels, but the serial number is for a I series panel. Here is the * from the serial number decoder:

*CLS and Monolith stat panels have model number 1, 2 or 3 following the “S”. For Example, CS2HK712
is CLS 2 Stator 1996 November. 700 series indicates that it is a replacement or service stat. It is the 12th
service stat for this month and this model.

So I'm not sure about the serial number, but they are series II panels taken from the picture. I would send Martin Logan service an e-mail and ask about both the serial numbers. You are overseas so maybe the serial numbers are different for export models. ML service is really nice and helpful and will surely let you know.

Sorry, I just am not sure anymore about what you have. If you could see inside the electronics and take pictures, we could tell for sure. I do know you have series II panels, but not sure about the electronics.

I guess these could have the original series I electronics with series II panels, but they are going to sound kinda goofy. I've never heard of anyone doing this and have never heard how they would sound. The series II CLSes had different panels and electronics, so you really shouldn't mix and match, but the world is a weird place...

 

[Don Camillo]

Hi FoxMulder,

We share the same confusion.

I indeed believe its a CLS 1 with CLS II panels. And I think the electronics are original.
I havent bought them yet, but I will listen to them soon.

You said they might sound goofy. Well another person told me that his CLS1 also with the II panels, sound not as good as his CLS1 with original panels (in his opinion).
So now I understand what he meant, looking what you said about mixing panels.

However I can recall that a forummember mentioned that the panels you buy now, are all the same CLSII panels, no matter if you have 'IIa' or 'IIz'. I dont know if you can buy CLS1 panels especially for the older CLS nowadays, or that it will be a II panel. But I will ask at ML.

As for the numbers, the owner of the CLS1 from the picture used to be a ML dealer.
Maybe in the USA they keep track when replacement has been done. And maybe his employee did forget to change it to a "7".

I'll ask ML.

Thanks for helping!

Don C.

 

[FoxMulder]

Don,

They still make panels for the original CLS (I) speaker. There are a few members on here that have replacement panels for their series I CLSes. It all depends on which version you have and again, you really shouldn't mix them.

Please let us know what ML service says.

Good Luck!

 

[bsandovalb]

A CLSii with new panels.... How would it comoare against newer ML speakers?

Asking for opinions on current cls users that have changed panel recently, so... Does it still hold it's own against the young boys from martin logan?!