Oh no, I've got a hankerin for some Wilsons!!!!

[Joey_V]

The Sophia's as far as any 'normal' speaker with dynamic drivers go, are nice. They're easy to drive and look good in room. The are also very easy to drive - a 50 watt tube amp will do it. Of course a more powerful amplifer will reward with even better sound.

Compared with the Summits though, the Sophias lack space and 'air' The Sophia's image well but are not in the same league as the Summits. The Sophia's are superb in the reproduction of the micro and macro dynamics of music but in contrast the Summits are on a different planet and are breathtakingly fast.

When reproducing low bass there is no contest here. The Summits twin powered subwoofers per cabinet offer outstandingly tight and accurate low frequency response. The Sophia's single passive 10 inch driver can't compete.

It's probably unfair on the Sophia to compare them with the Summit's. But I guess Wilson Audio have priced them the same as the Summit's so this makes the comparison a fair one.

Edwin,

I agree.... I think they have it all wrong, the pricing atleast. I dont understand how the WP5 was like 10K, the WP7 was 22K, and the WP8 is $27K.... they all look very similar and I bet the materials used in each are pretty much of the same cost to the manufacturer (and even it it were more nowadays due to advances in driver and cabinet material, I doubt it is the reason for the exhorbitant price increase).

I think the Sophia should be like around $7K... and the WP8 at about $12K...

 

[Gordon Gray]

Audio Artistry Beethoven

John,

This is one speaker that I have extremely fond memories of. Heard them three different times over three years at CES and was literally transported by the magic. And this is under CES show conditions. They have the quickness, soundstaging, and transparency of the ML's with a slightly warmish but sufficiently detailed overall character.

Reason I am pointing this out is that there is a pair for sale on Audiogon (full range speaker category) for $7,000. They retail for $35K.

Issues to consider. This is a four piece system and needs a big room. Also, I think you'll need four amps to drive the system. Having said that, if I had the appropriate room size and the wallet, I would not hesitate to sell my Summits and buy these. An absolutely incredible deal for a phenomenal, full range speaker system with spectacular musicality.

GG

 

[twich54]

The Sophia's as far as any 'normal' speaker with dynamic drivers go, are nice. They're easy to drive and look good in room. The are also very easy to drive - a 50 watt tube amp will do it. Of course a more powerful amplifer will reward with even better sound.QUOTE]


edwin, I actually listened to this speaker at Overture last year being driven by a ARC VS55, 50 watt, KT-88 amp and I must tell you it struggled mightly to control the bottom end. Dave Gordon(Dir-sales ARC) was on hand demoing that amp with the new LS-17 and I can still see him rolling his eyes when the lowered end went to 'mush' !

 

[DrJRapp]

I too had the opportunity to auditon the Sophias last year before prurchasing The Summits. They are an excellent speaker, whereas The Summits are truely something special. I think the Sophias are a great speaker for someone who has lost alot of their high frequency hearing ability. Their high frequencies don't really exist, so they won't be missed. That's why they don't have the air of The Summit nor do they image as well. They can play louder, however, if that criterion is important to you.

 

[eknuds01]

I haven't listened to Wilson speakers before, but they look odd. It looks like a space ship has landed in your living room.

Want to see a gorgeous speaker: Legacy Audio. Awesome.

Please advise: for those of you that can actually afford speakers at $30,000/pair, please tell me:

1) what do you do for a living

2) how can I do what you do

thanks,
Erik

:devil:

 

[theWB]

..... and yes, the grass is always greener on the otherside.... regardless if you own ML or Wilson or Kharma.

How true!!
Happiness comes from being content and appreciating what you have.

 

[DTB300]

Want to see a gorgeous speaker: Legacy Audio. Awesome.

A good friend of mine owns the Whispers which he Tri-Amps. Just an awesome speaker, and when he went to Tri-Amp - WHOA!!!!

Please advise: for those of you that can actually afford speakers at $30,000/pair, please tell me:

People that usually (not everyone mind you) buy them do it for the price tag or the "Ego Factor" rather than audiophile knowledge. Like the threads you see posted on forums: "I have 10k to spend, what amp should I buy???" I always want to reply, pay me $1k fee and I will get you the amp you need.

Dan

 

[HsvToolFool]

I've heard the Summits and just didn't think their "all that". They are nice don't get me wrong, just not a huge step up from Odyssey's IMO.

Perhaps I'm being a bit literal here, but at the performance
level of the mid-level and above ML, there aren't many
speakers which are a huge step up. Improvements
are relatively subtle as that theoretical "absolute sound"
is asymptotically approached.

When I upgrade from SL3 to Summit which I think everyone
here will agree is a "huge" improvement, I don't expect
the sound to be drastically more realistic. I'm expecting
slightly more neutrality, dynamics, and another decade
of subliminal bass extension.

Just for fun, I've auditioned many I-Can-Never-Afford-Them
speakers: Genesis 1, SoundLab U-1, Maggie MG20.1,
Avalon Eclipse, W/Puppy5, Pipedreams, one of a kind
weird-but-gorgeous McIntosh line-source towers made
from solid walnut...

...and they were all great. But there's not one of them I'd
choose over a mid-to-upper level ML, even my SL3. The
cost-to-performance ratio just doesn't compute.

Now having said that, I've heard very good things about
Dali MegaLines and especially the Dynaudio Evidence
Temptation. Just two more for my silly-expensive speaker
audition / scavenger hunt.

To be honest I think many would be better off with a used set of Prodigys than new Summits, then you can take the extra SIX THOUSAND dollars and buy tons of music, room treatment etc. Again, this is just IMHO.

I agree. If I had a 25x35 dedicated room (or larger), I'd
get a pair of used Prodigy in excellent shape and never
look back. But for less colossal-sized rooms, Summit is the
ultimate 'stat. Prodigy are just too big and domineering
when you sit less than 15-feet away.

 

[Pcar928fan]

I agree. If I had a 25x35 dedicated room (or larger), I'd
get a pair of used Prodigy in excellent shape and never
look back. But for less colossal-sized rooms, Summit is the
ultimate 'stat. Prodigy are just too big and domineering
when you sit less than 15-feet away.

My room is about 16' by 24' or so and I sit about 14' from the Prodigy and DAMN are they big! I LOVE IT THOUGH! They do take up a fair bit of realestate unfortunately, but man do they sound good! I think you can even find them for like $5k if you get lucky, $6k+ is still the norm I think though. What great speakers!

 

[Statman]

Let me add my opinion

I have owned ML since 1989 and now Wilsons. Both speakers have their advantages and disadvantages. The Summits which I sat down and listened to twice at length are the best sounding hybrid that the factory has made to date! I compared them to my Odysseys at the time and they were definitely smoother in the crossover region and I can honestly say this is the first speaker from ML that you have to really listen for the panel woofer integration,it's that good! Both ML and Wilsons will require several trys at setting them up correctly. I was all set to buy another set of ML until a friend of mine who just happened to be a Wilson dealer Brooks Berdan had me sit down and really listen to Wilsons uninterrupted both at his store and then in my room where the biggest difference was heard. I realise that most dealers can't do that. I have been an audiophile since I was around 18 years old and I'm 48 now so I'm not just talking to hear myself talk.


I do agree that the ML have a bit more air around them (larger radiating area) but as far as imaging In my room the WP7's I have revealed a lot more in terms of proper imaging than I ever got with my Odysseys. The Odyssey gave me a slightly taller image but not necessarily better if that makes any sense? For those of you saying the Sophia didn't give you a good image it wasn't set up correctly I can guarantee you that. If you compare dynamics which in this case the Wilsons win hands down due to the cone drivers? Why do you think ML still uses conventional drivers in it's top of the line speaker?The reason, to move enough air. The downside to all this is the Wilsons are expensive, but look at the used section for Wilsons and you'll see that you do get some of your investment back, try selling your ML speakers right now and see what you get?


I still laugh at the thread that was up here awhile ago that compared the Sophias to a waste basket. Everytime I walk around them I have the urge to toss my used paper towels at them! "Analytical and fatiguing"? I wonder, did you listen to them for an extended period of several weeks or just the let's go listen to a Wilson and repeat what everyone else says? I have found if they are set up correctly as my system is they aren't fatiguing at all. How many ML systems have you heard that sounded bad also due to improper placement? They are very detailed If you feed them a crappy signal they will reproduce a crappy signal. I have gone back and listened to older recordings that I thought for sure would sound bad as they did before and they actually sounded listenable. I have also heard stuff in some recordings and just sat here and shook my head in amazement in hearing details that I know I didn't hear with my ML's even after switching to a silver based cable to brighten up the system which I thought was a little on the lifeless side. As a far as efficiency they are probably the most efficient speaker I have owned, which have been Maggie MGIIB's,Acoustat 2+2's and then Sequel II's and then Odyssey's. It's been said before that if you have any weak link in your system the speakers either ML or Wilsons are going to expose them, especially a room that needs correction in it's acoustics. I would suggest whatever speaker you decidee to go with try and listen to them at home to get a true idea of what they'll do in your system!

 

[twich54]

Statman, well put, you make a very valid point ! I'm curious though, the two listening sessions with the Summitt's, were both of them at the dealer ?, for if they were then you may have missed out on the 'magic' you could have had in your home set-up.

 

[twich54]

If you compare dynamics which in this case the Wilsons win hands down due to the cone drivers? QUOTE]


Statman, it goes well beyond their drivers, the design / execution of their cabinetry in their line is a huge component, not only in the sonic presentation but the cost associated with it as well.

I have heard damn near the entire Wilson line-up at Overture over the years and while they are a Top Notch speaker, I too have a visual 'hang-up' with them.

 

[Audiophiliac]

I will add my 2 cents. I work at a dealer for both ML and Wilson. I would have a hard time choosing between say the Summits and the Sophias if that was the price range I was limited too (and at that price point, I would also re-consider the Krell LAT-2....I only listened to them several times when we had them, and they were incredible...although they require a sub).

They are different beasts for sure, but listening to them individually, they are both fantastic speakers. I have a hard time comparing any electrostat to any piston driven speaker. They are simply different. Not that one is always better than the other, just different.

I like the Wilson look. Its function over form for sure, but they look great in Ferrari red for sure....as far as pricing goes, you cannot fault Wilson for selling as many speakers as they do and still have room to inflate the prices over time....if people are willing to pay for them, they have every right to allow them too.

I dont think its a question of which speaker is "better", since that is completely subject to personal preference. But which one would suit you, your room, your associated equipment, your source material, your aesthetic preferences, "better"....listen to both until you come to your own conclusion. Thats the best advice I can give. For me, give me the MAXX 2 in Ferrari Red with some HUGE custom color matched Boulder monoblocks...hoo-ah!

 

[DTB300]

They are different beasts for sure, but listening to them individually, they are both fantastic speakers. I have a hard time comparing any electrostat to any piston driven speaker. They are simply different. Not that one is always better than the other, just different.

Very well said!!!! Both great speakers, but different.

Dan

 

[tonyc]

I have lusted after Watt Puppies over the years and probably would have bought a used pair by now if it were not for an amazing lack of image height and the size of the images. I have heard these over the years driven by tube amps, solid state amps, hybrid amps, Class D amps, you name it. No matter what associated equipment these two flaws remained present through every iteration I've heard (I have NOT heard WP8). The images are too small-I can't justify 20+K to hear munchkins! My bias has always been toward planar speakers-two models of Acoustat, Apogee Divas, ML Aeons and now Summits. Maybe this is just my bias but listen long and carefully before you lay down the big bucks to go Wilson. They are not twice as good as the Summits!

 

[Statman]

I have lusted after Watt Puppies over the years and probably would have bought a used pair by now if it were not for an amazing lack of image height and the size of the images. I have heard these over the years driven by tube amps, solid state amps, hybrid amps, Class D amps, you name it. No matter what associated equipment these two flaws remained present through every iteration I've heard (I have NOT heard WP8). The images are too small-I can't justify 20+K to hear munchkins! My bias has always been toward planar speakers-two models of Acoustat, Apogee Divas, ML Aeons and now Summits. Maybe this is just my bias but listen long and carefully before you lay down the big bucks to go Wilson. They are not twice as good as the Summits!

Tony,


That was the first thing I noticed once the Watt Puppies were set up in my room. I believe that it's an aquired habit due to being able to listen to tall images when listening to planars/stats? I know it happened to me. I was so used to listening to panels that anything that wasn't sounded odd! The WP8's are smoother in the high end due to a new tweeter which is also used in the Maxx 2 (which does have a taller image height due to it's size). It better considering they are way too expensive for me right now! The Watt Puppys were originally designed as a location monitor and did not have a woofer section at first. They seem to work very well in nearfield listening placements. I don't even notice the height difference now that I've owned them for a few months. I am sitting around 12 feet back. I agree think long and carefully before you plunk down any money and if at all possible arrange to have them if you can set up in your room. What's funny is the same problems that ML have as far as toe in affecting soundstaging is the same with these. Except I didn't need the flashlight to set these up.

 

[Audiophiliac]

Wilson speakers (all of them) have a simple, yet somewhat tedious, setup procedure that works the same in any room (at least thats the idea). But once you find the sweet spot for the speakers and your chair, its money. And the above opinion on the image size/height is what I mean by trying to compare planar/electrostats to conventional speakers....completely different animals. Had tonyc not had so much experience with the former, he may have a much more optimistic opinion of the W/P. Maybe not. And then there is that "personal preference" thing again.

Ahhhh.....the world is glued to the TV, brimming with garbage over Anna and Britney et al.....and we are tossing it up between Wilson and Martin Logan....do we not care about the issues of the world?

 

[Pcar928fan]

Ahhhh.....the world is glued to the TV, brimming with garbage over Anna and Britney et al.....and we are tossing it up between Wilson and Martin Logan....do we not care about the issues of the world?

Not those that is FOR SURE! I don't follow any of that crap personally! When I watch TV it is almost always something on a Discovery channel...just love that infotainment type programming! Watched a thing on Borneo today...amazing!

 

[MiTT]

I like the Wilsons myself, have heard wonderful music coming from them on multiple occasions, However......

If I were going to go lay out 30 Large for speakers I'd be bringing home some Avalon Edilon Diamonds or stretching the budget a bit (what's $5K when you're on this playing field) and get the JM Lab Mezoo Utopia Be's.

But that's just me...

 

[Joey_V]

I like the Wilsons myself, have heard wonderful music coming from them on multiple occasions, However......

If I were going to go lay out 30 Large for speakers I'd be bringing home some Avalon Edilon Diamonds or stretching the budget a bit (what's $5K when you're on this playing field) and get the JM Lab Mezoo Utopia Be's.

But that's just me...

Or the MM3? Those look killer!