I think you are incorrect
No more dealer discounts?
- Thread starter Dublin25
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I think you are incorrect
Dublin25
Well-known member
I don't know the legalities of it, but I don't believe it to be very smart. I understand what they are trying to do - but in todays economy it won't work very well. If they are in fact able to enforce the MSRP - they will lose new or existing customers - and revenue. ML speakers are by no means inexpensive, and the price is out of reach for many; the discount pushes some people over the edge enough to move forward with making the purchase.
I know there are many people out there that walk into a store and pay the retail price - I think that is more of an education issue.
This is not much different then walking into a car dealer, or jewelry dealer - no one pays retail (for the most part anyway). I for one most definetly do not. I will find someone to give me some kind of deal; throw me some kind of bone.
One thing the dealers or anyone else for that matter needs to do is sell their value. In my business it's not about the best price, but best over all value. Knowledge, service, support, and heck personality are all worth something to me.
I know there are many people out there that walk into a store and pay the retail price - I think that is more of an education issue.
This is not much different then walking into a car dealer, or jewelry dealer - no one pays retail (for the most part anyway). I for one most definetly do not. I will find someone to give me some kind of deal; throw me some kind of bone.
One thing the dealers or anyone else for that matter needs to do is sell their value. In my business it's not about the best price, but best over all value. Knowledge, service, support, and heck personality are all worth something to me.
what do you mean by this ?
Dublin25
Well-known member
Today... 10% at least. A few sales here and there can keep the lights on and people employeed.
RichTeer
Well-known member
Can someone please tell the oil cartel companies (aka, "gas stations") that? If those guys aren't guilty of price fixing, I don't know who is!
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
I totally agree with risabet and his observation on "double invoicing".
If a dealer chooses, he can go this route and short of a full financial audit by ML or any other hardware supplier (who's going to do that?), no one is going to know the difference. The full price invoice accompanies the warranty registration card. The actual price paid is confidential info between buyer and seller.
Not an uncommon practice from my experience.
GG
If a dealer chooses, he can go this route and short of a full financial audit by ML or any other hardware supplier (who's going to do that?), no one is going to know the difference. The full price invoice accompanies the warranty registration card. The actual price paid is confidential info between buyer and seller.
Not an uncommon practice from my experience.
GG
selective prosection
the only 2 cases prosecuted for price fixing under Regan where court appointed lawyers and doctors trying to get a fair deal from medicaid. We had to get a waiver from Justice to avoid possible criminal prosecution.
When I started out lawyers were making 20$ for out of court,$35for in court for defending indigent defendants.We went on strike to get $35/hr.that was in a bill before the city counsel.
I learned far more than I wanted to know about anti-trust law and selective prosecution. Common sense and good intentions will not get a federal prosecutor off your tail.
We had tons of sympathy and some of the best anti-trust lawyers in the country.
The oil companies blame price fixing on companies not subject to our anti trust laws.
I don't think the dealers or ML will ever be prosecuted. We might shame them into proper behavior
the only 2 cases prosecuted for price fixing under Regan where court appointed lawyers and doctors trying to get a fair deal from medicaid. We had to get a waiver from Justice to avoid possible criminal prosecution.
When I started out lawyers were making 20$ for out of court,$35for in court for defending indigent defendants.We went on strike to get $35/hr.that was in a bill before the city counsel.
I learned far more than I wanted to know about anti-trust law and selective prosecution. Common sense and good intentions will not get a federal prosecutor off your tail.
We had tons of sympathy and some of the best anti-trust lawyers in the country.
The oil companies blame price fixing on companies not subject to our anti trust laws.
I don't think the dealers or ML will ever be prosecuted. We might shame them into proper behavior
about what?
not sure how to rebut that. maybe I should refer the matter to FTC for an opinion?
gregadd
not sure how to rebut that. maybe I should refer the matter to FTC for an opinion?
gregadd
and the winner is...
http://www.bakerdonelson.com/Content.aspx?NodeID=200&PublicationID=312
The Supreme Court ruling in 2006 Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v PSKS, Inc.
" AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN A MANUFACTURER AND A RESELLER ON THE FINAL SELLING PRICE OF THE MANUFACTURERS GOODS IS ILLEGAL ONLY IF ITS ANTICOMPETITIVE EFECTS OUTWEIGHS ITS PROCOMPETITIVE EFFECTS."
It appears we were all partly wrong including the esteemed Attorney General. Vertical price fixing is no longer per se illegal.
This applies only to retailers and manufacturers. It offers no relief to lawyers seeking a raise or doctors who receive insurance payments. Horizontal price fixing remains per se illegal.
Of course if all the resellers have the same price it is difficult to see what competition will be based on.
However this case expressly defines what ML is doing as vertical price fixing. Sorry FishMan. If you truly have no life you can click on the link and read it yourself.
I promise never to raise a legal issue on this site a gain.
GREGADD
http://www.bakerdonelson.com/Content.aspx?NodeID=200&PublicationID=312
The Supreme Court ruling in 2006 Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v PSKS, Inc.
" AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN A MANUFACTURER AND A RESELLER ON THE FINAL SELLING PRICE OF THE MANUFACTURERS GOODS IS ILLEGAL ONLY IF ITS ANTICOMPETITIVE EFECTS OUTWEIGHS ITS PROCOMPETITIVE EFFECTS."
It appears we were all partly wrong including the esteemed Attorney General. Vertical price fixing is no longer per se illegal.
This applies only to retailers and manufacturers. It offers no relief to lawyers seeking a raise or doctors who receive insurance payments. Horizontal price fixing remains per se illegal.
Of course if all the resellers have the same price it is difficult to see what competition will be based on.
However this case expressly defines what ML is doing as vertical price fixing. Sorry FishMan. If you truly have no life you can click on the link and read it yourself.
I promise never to raise a legal issue on this site a gain.
GREGADD
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tonepub
Senior Member
Wilson is pretty famous for this too...
You bet, I've only been doing this for 35 plus years now.......I have NEVER and will NEVER pay MSRP for anything in consumer electronics !! Only a fool in todays climate would !
As for those that come into your shop....they obviously don't know how to shop !!
Mantana
Well-known member
Guess i bought at the right time...I bought from a local dealer
and was initially offered approx 5% off retail
but eventually worked a 20% discount on my Spires. I didn't buy
any other products, but some of the discount was a weekend special
(so the dealer said) from ML. I wouldn't have bought the speaker
if they hadn't discounted at least 10%, particularly on an $8500
price. I've always read that speakers have the highest markup
(versus electronics...forget the cable ripoff). Isn't
there a 60-100% markup to the dealer and another 60-100%
to the MSRP ?
and was initially offered approx 5% off retail
but eventually worked a 20% discount on my Spires. I didn't buy
any other products, but some of the discount was a weekend special
(so the dealer said) from ML. I wouldn't have bought the speaker
if they hadn't discounted at least 10%, particularly on an $8500
price. I've always read that speakers have the highest markup
(versus electronics...forget the cable ripoff). Isn't
there a 60-100% markup to the dealer and another 60-100%
to the MSRP ?
amey01
Well-known member
And what's to stop someone blabbing this out on the internet? Dealer gets busted. Would they risk it?
Erm, re the above post.
I personally do not see what's wrong paying full MSRP for a consumer electronics good, especially if its a quality product like a Martin Logan loudspeaker. In the end, the customer receives a fantastic set of speakers, and both the dealer and manufacturer make a reasonable (yet not bloated) profit off the transaction. Everything seems fair and in order to me. The customer gets to enjoy their new toys and the dealer/manufacturer is able to help cover the bills and put food on the table at home.
Look, I'm all about bargain hunting. I'm still relatively young and am by no means wealthy. Like most in my situation, my wallet gravitates towards the dealer/store offering the fairest deal. That said, I do not walk into a store with the preconceived notion that I will receive a price break. As far as I'm concerned, the price is the price. Way too many people these days expect hand-outs or little cuts here and there.
Besides, commodity electronic devices can hardly be considered investments, at least from a monetary perspective. Much like cars, the value of the toys plummet the second they leave the lot. This rather makes the 10% bit seem rather superfluous, or at least in my eyes. Shoppers that are truly stretched for cash always have used markets to turn to. While there is a good chance that they won't receive the same level of support that a local dealer and manufacturer can provide on whatever it is they buy, they'll nonetheless be able to step into a product they ordinarily could not afford by these means.
I'm not against the idea of discounts, and I'm certainly not against the notion of asking for one. But to walk into a business with the expectation that you are owed money off of a product as a common courtesy - that's flat out crass.
I personally do not see what's wrong paying full MSRP for a consumer electronics good, especially if its a quality product like a Martin Logan loudspeaker. In the end, the customer receives a fantastic set of speakers, and both the dealer and manufacturer make a reasonable (yet not bloated) profit off the transaction. Everything seems fair and in order to me. The customer gets to enjoy their new toys and the dealer/manufacturer is able to help cover the bills and put food on the table at home.
Look, I'm all about bargain hunting. I'm still relatively young and am by no means wealthy. Like most in my situation, my wallet gravitates towards the dealer/store offering the fairest deal. That said, I do not walk into a store with the preconceived notion that I will receive a price break. As far as I'm concerned, the price is the price. Way too many people these days expect hand-outs or little cuts here and there.
Besides, commodity electronic devices can hardly be considered investments, at least from a monetary perspective. Much like cars, the value of the toys plummet the second they leave the lot. This rather makes the 10% bit seem rather superfluous, or at least in my eyes. Shoppers that are truly stretched for cash always have used markets to turn to. While there is a good chance that they won't receive the same level of support that a local dealer and manufacturer can provide on whatever it is they buy, they'll nonetheless be able to step into a product they ordinarily could not afford by these means.
I'm not against the idea of discounts, and I'm certainly not against the notion of asking for one. But to walk into a business with the expectation that you are owed money off of a product as a common courtesy - that's flat out crass.
how to get a discount
I pretty much know what I want.
If I like it, I will buy it.
I've done my homework.
I pay cash. Some credit cards charge the merchant as much as 6%.
I deliver and set it up myself.
I waive the return policy. Unless it is defective or a complete mismatch.
Thus the merchant knows he will not be stuck with a return or disgruntled customer.
Shop where there is no sales tax.
There are just too many good products out there to be held hostage by ML's no discount policy.
gregadd
I pretty much know what I want.
If I like it, I will buy it.
I've done my homework.
I pay cash. Some credit cards charge the merchant as much as 6%.
I deliver and set it up myself.
I waive the return policy. Unless it is defective or a complete mismatch.
Thus the merchant knows he will not be stuck with a return or disgruntled customer.
Shop where there is no sales tax.
There are just too many good products out there to be held hostage by ML's no discount policy.
gregadd
Statman
Well-known member
Did any of you pay MSRP for your vehicles?
+1:bowdown:
Twich,
Same story here brother I've been at this the same period of time as you have. (We're old)
I have never and will never pay MSRP for high end electronics. How much is it marked up initially to return a profit? The "double invoicing" has been the way around it in the past for me.
+1:bowdown:
Twich,
Same story here brother I've been at this the same period of time as you have. (We're old)
I have never and will never pay MSRP for high end electronics. How much is it marked up initially to return a profit? The "double invoicing" has been the way around it in the past for me.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Adam,
I suppose a client could do this but I would question whether he or she would assuming that individual has a good working relationship with the dealer in question and wishes to potentially make other purchases from this retailer in the future.
And yes, I believe this practice is not necessarily uncommon so my sense is that some retailers do take the risk.
I suppose ML or others could do a "sting" operation on their dealer(s) if they felt it appropriate.
GG
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amey01
Well-known member
Yes - ML "Mystery shoppers", trying to scrounge a deal!
If they went that far, they'd probably have no distributors left!
SundayNiagara
Well-known member
"I suppose ML or others could do a "sting" operation on their dealer(s) if they felt it appropriate."
Bose does it!
Bose does it!
