newbie back with lots more questions

[ralflar]

James, how curious, and unexpected, too. I don't see why ML would change an important detail such as dual binding posts without renaming the model. Perhaps ML ran out of i's? Aerius ii sounds so not right. (Aerius i++ sounds much more natural to this software developer.) Anyway:

eknuds, if your Aerius i have 2 red and 2 black binding posts each, you can bi-amp (passively). If you happen to have only 1 of each you're out of luck in this regard. Even then I would not worry, because single-amping with a decent amp will beat bi-amping with two inferior amps.

Mono blocks may be as cheap as $200 or so each, for Outlaw Audio 2200s. These get good reviews, FWIW. I have not heard them, and admit that I am sceptical of their ability to extract what MLs have to offer. I did hear the NAD C372 with Maggies, which are also not easy to drive. The C372 is a nice (if you can stomach battleship grey), capable and cheap integrated 2 channel amp. Up the scale is the powerful heavyweight Rotel 1090 at $2k. Joey liked his until he replaced it with a Plinius radiator . There are many options between these price points. As an owner of the CIAudio D-200 monos my vote goes to the cheaper D-100 ($1600). I have not heard the D-100, but the folkore says that they sound just like their larger siblings, the D-200, which I like much better than the more expensive Rotel 1091 monos which I also owned for a short time.

 

[Pcar928fan]

James, how curious, and unexpected, too. I don't see why ML would change an important detail such as dual binding posts without renaming the model. Perhaps ML ran out of i's? Aerius ii sounds so not right. (Aerius i++ sounds much more natural to this software developer.) Anyway:

Yes, it is very strange, and the only way I know this is because there was an auction on ebay for Aerius i speakers. So, I looked at the pic and guess what. Only one set of binding posts per speaker...well, I thought, I am going to send this idiot a message and let him know he is a FOOL... for kicks before I sent the message I looked at the other pics and low and behold there was a close up of the back of the speaker and SURE ENOUGH.... Aerius i! I was BLOWN AWAY! I had been told the difference between the Aerius and the "i"s were the dual biding posts... Later I read somewhere that it was an option, even on the "i" model! STRANGE INDEED!

 

[eknuds01]

James, how curious, and unexpected, too. I don't see why ML would change an important detail such as dual binding posts without renaming the model. Perhaps ML ran out of i's? Aerius ii sounds so not right. (Aerius i++ sounds much more natural to this software developer.) Anyway:

eknuds, if your Aerius i have 2 red and 2 black binding posts each, you can bi-amp (passively). If you happen to have only 1 of each you're out of luck in this regard. Even then I would not worry, because single-amping with a decent amp will beat bi-amping with two inferior amps.

Mono blocks may be as cheap as $200 or so each, for Outlaw Audio 2200s. These get good reviews, FWIW. I have not heard them, and admit that I am sceptical of their ability to extract what MLs have to offer. I did hear the NAD C372 with Maggies, which are also not easy to drive. The C372 is a nice (if you can stomach battleship grey), capable and cheap integrated 2 channel amp. Up the scale is the powerful heavyweight Rotel 1090 at $2k. Joey liked his until he replaced it with a Plinius radiator . There are many options between these price points. As an owner of the CIAudio D-200 monos my vote goes to the cheaper D-100 ($1600). I have not heard the D-100, but the folkore says that they sound just like their larger siblings, the D-200, which I like much better than the more expensive Rotel 1091 monos which I also owned for a short time.

Raflar,

The feedback is much appreciated. I can stomach the battleship grey of the NAD amps (hahaha). I will also look out for the brands/models you suggested.

Can you, or someone else, explain this concept of 'amplifier gain' and how it's to be adjusted. I am a mechanical engineer and my background in electrical stuff is quite poor.

thanks,
Erik

 

[Joey_V]

Up the scale is the powerful heavyweight Rotel 1090 at $2k. Joey liked his until he replaced it with a Plinius radiator .

I caught that one.... hehehe...

:cheers:

 

[ralflar]

Cheers. Good catch. :clap:

 

[ralflar]

Erik,

My own understanding of this is limited, keep that in mind when you read this. Amplifier gain refers to the sensitivity of the amplifier. The more sensitive the amp, the larger its gain spec. An amp with a larger gain can amplify smaller signals. Gain is measured in dB. Every 6dB increase in gain represents a factor of two in power. So a 24dB gain represents a factor of 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 = 16, 30dB equal a 32x factor. The 0dB point refers to full power output of the amplifier. In terms of amplitude or voltages, 3dB represent a factor of 2x. 30dB gain in amplitude are equivalent to 2 to the power of (30/3) = 2^10 = 1024. Since an amp amplifies both signal and noise, and is more sensitive to noise at higher gains due to the higher sensitivity, it is generally a good idea to choose the lowest gain which provides sufficient volume. If the gain is too low, the max. rated power output of the amp can not be realized even if the volume control is turned all the way to the right. If the gain is too high, the max. output is reached earlier. Turning the volume knob further to the right will cause the amplifier to clip. Bad things will happen.

As far as matching pre- and power amps, gain-wise, I am a bit confused, too. Today's sources output signal at such high levels that pre-amps actually attenuate, mostly, rather than amplify. This would infer that the higher the pre-amps gain spec, the lower its output level will be. If this were true, you would want a pre-amp with a gain spec that is equal to or higher than that of the power amp.

Grateful if somebody who actually knows these things can either confirm or correct my conjecture.

 

[Joey_V]

Raflar,

I confirm your math. :banana:

 

[risabet]

Erik,

As far as matching pre- and power amps, gain-wise, I am a bit confused, too. Today's sources output signal at such high levels that pre-amps actually attenuate, mostly, rather than amplify. This would infer that the higher the pre-amps gain spec, the lower its output level will be. If this were true, you would want a pre-amp with a gain spec that is equal to or higher than that of the power amp.

Grateful if somebody who actually knows these things can either confirm or correct my conjecture.

The important specs when matching an amp and a pre-amp are the output impedance of the pre-amp and the input impedance of the amp where you would want at least a 10x difference with the input impedance being higher than the output impedance, and the input sensitivity of the amp. IS is the voltage needed to drive the amp to full output. All combos from the same manufacturer should meet these specs. Most pre-amps attenuate the signal to ground but then still amplify the remaining signal to the output.

 

[eknuds01]

Erik,

My own understanding of this is limited, keep that in mind when you read this. Amplifier gain refers to the sensitivity of the amplifier. The more sensitive the amp, the larger its gain spec. An amp with a larger gain can amplify smaller signals. Gain is measured in dB. Every 6dB increase in gain represents a factor of two in power. So a 24dB gain represents a factor of 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 = 16, 30dB equal a 32x factor. The 0dB point refers to full power output of the amplifier. In terms of amplitude or voltages, 3dB represent a factor of 2x. 30dB gain in amplitude are equivalent to 2 to the power of (30/3) = 2^10 = 1024. Since an amp amplifies both signal and noise, and is more sensitive to noise at higher gains due to the higher sensitivity, it is generally a good idea to choose the lowest gain which provides sufficient volume. If the gain is too low, the max. rated power output of the amp can not be realized even if the volume control is turned all the way to the right. If the gain is too high, the max. output is reached earlier. Turning the volume knob further to the right will cause the amplifier to clip. Bad things will happen.

As far as matching pre- and power amps, gain-wise, I am a bit confused, too. Today's sources output signal at such high levels that pre-amps actually attenuate, mostly, rather than amplify. This would infer that the higher the pre-amps gain spec, the lower its output level will be. If this were true, you would want a pre-amp with a gain spec that is equal to or higher than that of the power amp.

Grateful if somebody who actually knows these things can either confirm or correct my conjecture.

Ralflar:

Thanks, man. I will have to over your post a few more times to let it sink in.

 

[eknuds01]

The important specs when matching an amp and a pre-amp are the output impedance of the pre-amp and the input impedance of the amp where you would want at least a 10x difference with the input impedance being higher than the output impedance, and the input sensitivity of the amp. IS is the voltage needed to drive the amp to full output. All combos from the same manufacturer should meet these specs. Most pre-amps attenuate the signal to ground but then still amplify the remaining signal to the output.

Risabet,

thanks for your input as well. It's amazing how much you guys know!

Erik