New to the forum, looking for advice....

[HopelessDFilms]

Hi all, I am new to the forum, although I have been reading for easily a good month now. I will start off with some background info. I originally began my love with photography, which quickly turned to film and video, and of course along with those three, sound. During college at good old Columbia College in Chicago, I started to pick up more and more gear. Now I have accumulated lots of equipment and have half of it stored away in another room waiting for the time when I have the space and need for it all.

Sadly I do not yet have my ML, although I am not a stranger to high end audio. I run XLR cables from my HTPC to a pair of studio monitors, made by KRK. They are the V8 Series 2 to be specific. I also have a HT based upon a PS3, Xbox360, HTPC, Yamaha 5.1 receiver (currently) and a Samsung 46" DLP.

I soon plan to upgrade my receiver to possibly a Pioneer Elite VSX 82. Although what I really want is the Parasound Halo C1....sadly money doesn't grow on trees, or at least not on trees found in the chicagoland area.

Other upgrades I am looking at are of course some beautifully delicious ML. I had a great line on a pair of used Aerious i but for whatever reason the seller decided to go behind my back after I had made a verbal deal and apparently sell them to somebody else...I guess I cannot blame her though, a better profit is a better profit, but it still sucks. Anyways, I am looking at either the Vista or Vantage....although with this recent discontinuation of clarity's a great deal on those I would probably not turn down, as I could easily in the future purchase a pair of Vista or Vantage and turn the Clarity into rear surrounds.

The main attraction to the parasound gear or any other higher end products is the addition of XLR input/output which is a perfect match with my studio monitors, which in their own right sounds absolutely delicious.... for info on them and specs checkout KRK's website....

http://www.krksys.com/v3/vseries2_v8.asp


Well I suppose I have rambled enough about background.... my main point of the post is some helpful advice. Like I previously have said I am looking to do some upgrades, and money is of course as it always is more of a deturrent factor than anything. I would love to upgrade processor to the Parasound, but I really do not have the $$$ for it and if i did that would completely wipe out my funding for logans....so I have been looking at the Pioneer Elites. After research I have found the 82 to be a good model with dare I say adequate for the time being power. The ability to listen to SACD will most definitely be appreciated as well. I have a small collection of SACD, but sadly I can only listen to the hybrids currently and not even in SACD as the PS3 will NOT OUTPUT audio through optical toslink. That is the receiver / processor problem in a nutshell.

On to the speakers....I have auditioned the Vistas, Vantages, and Clarity's many times, but sadly on in the local Tweeter or Magnolia. I am incredibly appalled at the setup of the Vantages at the Tweeter, the positioning, among other issues is just terrible....it is so bad that the Clarity's sound much fuller and accurate! Granted they are in a separate room from the Clarity's and Vistas, but even with short term memory etc I can EASILY tell that the sound s being produced are much more enjoyable from the Vista/Clarity. $ is always an issue and with the recent discontinuation of Clarity I have been quoted roughly around 1700ish for a pair. My main problem with this is that I am sure soon after the discontinuation of them used pairs will show up for closer to 1400? Optimally I would love to have a pair of the Vistas or Vantages. I know that the Vantages would sound phenomenal even though my personal experience with them hasn't been favorable, but if the Vistas are anything like the Vantage then I am positive that they will be delicious.

Any tips or tricks at getting to "sonic nirvana" (to quote robin) will be greatly appreciated.

On a side note, I work as a freelance multimedia producer video/photo/editing/etc.... and lately there is no work at all, I have just recently gotten some work, but sadly very small jobs and thusly small pay...this certainly slows down the purchasing fun and Hopeless Dreamer-itis.

Thankyou in advance for the help as I'm sure the pooled experience and knowledge base of this forum will help me greatly.:cheers:

 

[theWB]

Although what I really want is the Parasound Halo C1....sadly money doesn't grow on trees, or at least not on trees found in the chicagoland area.

Try Audigon, you might be able to get everything you want if your willing to go with used equipment.
http://www.audiogon.com/
Money may not grow on trees in Chicago, but in some parts of the city there's
this special diet you can go on which will enable you to aquire your audio desires, It's known as "The Ramen Diet"

...this certainly slows down the purchasing fun and Hopeless Dreamer-itis.

Around here it's known as Joeyitis, and if you found this little site your disease is only going to accelerate weather you have the money or not.
You've been warned!!!:haha1:

 

[twich54]

Hopeless, Welcome ! Not too impressed with the set-up at Tweeter, what a surprise ?? !! To me one of the single biggest drawbacks to Martin Logan is the fact that they allow their product in those God-awfull stores. Yes there may be one or two in the country that do an OK job, but in my travels I have yet to find one.

Seeing that your in the Windy City hopefully some of the Chgo contingent will chime in with a "Real" salon or two for you to visit and audition them properly.

I can say without reservation, I'm very happy with my Vantage's and I suspect most of the other owners feel the same way.

 

[kcl]

I have a small collection of SACD, but sadly I can only listen to the hybrids currently and not even in SACD as the PS3 will NOT OUTPUT audio through optical toslink. That is the receiver / processor problem in a nutshell.

Sadly, I believe the SACD specification (DVD-A too, I think) specifically prohibits digital output streams. Thus, the toslink will be disabled when playing one of these formats.

(Apparently Sony, the 'owner' of SACD, did this so they could maintain control over player development.)

 

[greg_slo]

correct. with SACD and DVD-A its an analog signal that by-pass digital correction of any kind (spefically in a pre/pro or receiver)...but there are other ways to adjust the sound...but thats a whole other thread entirely

~greg

 

[MOON]

You really need good components to get the logans to really sound there best, truthfully, I really don't think the receiver will allow the logans to truley show what they are capable of. I agree with WB, go the used route, your dollar will stretch much farther.

 

[MOON]

You really need good components to get the logans to really sound there best, truthfully, I really don't think the receiver will allow the logans to truley show what they are capable of. I agree with WB, go the used route, your dollar will stretch much farther.

 

[HopelessDFilms]

Used gear

I have found a dealer of Parasound in the area, St Charles to be specific, and hopefully will be able to make an appointment before the week ends.

Sound Decisions by Audio Video Design - St. Charles (anybody ever heard of these guys or used their services before?)

I was afraid that you guys would only help cement what i already knew to be true, the better quality components are simply put, necessary. So where does this leave me? Well, like I had previously stated I am completely in love with the sound and price vs performance of the Parasound gear. The C1 controller is just awesome!! :rocker: ! IMOP.

http://www.parasound.com/halo/c1.php

And of course to go along with the controller the front amp for the logans would either be the a23 or a21....although I'm already guessing that many of you will think that a 200wpc @4ohm is not going to be sufficient, for say the Vista or Vantage....so the a23 steps in....

Thanks again for the helpful tips! Saw some nice things on gon, as well as the parasound authorized dealer http://www.audioadvisor.com/

 

[Joey_V]

Never been to that particular store, but I'll keep my eyes peeled the next time I'm in the area.:cheers:

 

[Burke]

If you get the pioneer receiver you may want to look at the OPPO DV-981HD 1080p High Definition Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI This will output the SACD or DVD-A digital streams to the receiver via HDMI (an HDCP copy protected stream) Sony does not want to control player development just your right to store and play the music.

I have this combination and it works great. If you would like to see it pm me a we can set something up.

 

[HopelessDFilms]

McAlister PP150 75WPC

So I found a used tooob amp for pretty cheap, retails at 1300$ and seller is willing to go around 650-700 thing is that the specs on this guy seem a bit weak, but then again I am very uneducated in tooobs and if you look at them the same way power wise as you would with SS....

any help would be appreciated.

http://mcalisteraudio.com/

 

[Joey_V]

We had discussions about that McAlister amp before... the consensus I believe was... dont get it because of reliability issues.

Joey

 

[Sambob2]

Hopeless,

Keep searching and checking in with us on any questions, your sure to find an answer that will get you sarted in the right direction. As WB mentioned, used is a good place to start if you want to get more for your money than if you bought new. One drawback is that you cannot audition the equipment unless you know someone who has it or has a recommendation for it. The other is the warantee The Parasound is a good start and like Moon says, the Martins, although some models are efficient 89 to 90 dB, need a good amount of power to make them sing. I currently use 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms, solid state...I don't know what the rating is at 4 ohms probably 150 or so...I am currently looking for new amplification in the 250W/Ch or greater into 8 ohms.

As you said earlier in your initial post, I also ran into a Best Buy 14 miles out of town and checked in to look at some new recordings and movies. I stumbled into a Magnolia which I did not know was there. Knowing from this website that Magnolia carries some ML's I had to look. The sales person was very nice and not pushy. I was amazed at how he thought the Martin Logans sounded in that room with the setup they were in. The left ML was facing the left rear corner of the room and about 4" away from the back wall...the right speaker was facing the right wall about halfway to the front of the room...massive toe-out!! The right speaker was about a foot away from the rear wall. After telling him that I was a ML owner of a larger set of ML's I had to suggest kindly if we could re-position them to improve the imaging. He agreed and was amazed at the difference. I sat and listened for another 20 minutes and left only inquiring about the price...I think they were Mosaics, about 1300 each? Great sound at lower levels when positioned correctly.
Sam

 

[HopelessDFilms]

Hopeless Rainy Visit to Sound Decisions

So I decided when I woke up today that I wasn't going to be a loaf and waste the day away, even if the weather is telling me the opposite. So I called up Sound Decisions in St Charles and made an appointment to stop by.



..................30 minutes, and a handful of wet tire burnouts later...............



Sound Decisions is well hidden in the older industrial district of St Charles. Nontheless I found the place and made it into the main room. A large space they are working with, hosts a handful of rooms some with setups in place and a couple with full wiring but able to be completely customized for a testing of multiple different components. I was pleasantly surprised when the owner came walking in the front door, since before on the phone I was told by the receptionist that none of the guys were going to be in and she was uneducated in the products and wouldn't be able to answer any of my questions. So now we're cooking.

The first room I took a look at had some paradigm speakers all being run from the *i think it was* the anthem D1 (the older version lacking HDMI) and a slew of anthem amps.

Then in a back room we were able to locate the Parasound A51

400WPC x5 @4ohm

The first impression I had was #%@&#%@(%@&@#(&@# Holy &#%(@&%!!!!! Are you (&%@#%(@#&% Kidding me? The amp is simply GYNORMOUS!!!! Then I calmed down :rocker:

Seriously though, this thing is really a piece of work....simple elegant designs, the one problem I might see is in the rear where the speaker terminals are placed in a column formation, I dunno, maybe its fine....just seems like it could get 'tight' back there. He started commenting on how he was having deja vu from my visit, a few of his customers are logan owners and they were looking at the same components.

Now I have posted an authorized dealer of parasound gear before on here which was http://www.audioadvisor.com and I thought that they had pretty good prices on some products, but this guy simply blew me away!!! He eagerly wanted me to take it home and audition it, but as you know I don't have my logans yet, so what would be the point....and the price? well the price is simply delicious....


MSRP for the A51 is 4000$ he quoted me 2400$........ Oh how I wish I had found the money tree on the way in there...

Another interesting point he made is that his opinion on the Parasound C1 was that it is just so so......while the Anthem he couldn't be happier with. I can understand that as I think i've seen a few other memebers with anthem gear.... Robin?

Anyways have any of you heard the same story about parasound processors being so so while their amps are screamin, and anthem processor being great? I suppose since he is so willing to allow me to audition that is by far the best option......when it all boils down its my eyes and ears that i'm trying to please.....

All things considered it was a start of a good day.

 

[timm]

my opinion of course -- get the best speaker your money can buy. I too used to think - amp/pre/source....then speakers... I had what I considered a great amp and pre with phase tech mini monitors and a sub. bottom line - you get more bang with the speaker in my opinion...sure they won't sound as good as they could ...but it is my opinion to get the speakers - then save for the components....

 

[timm]

my opinion of course -- get the best speaker your money can buy. I too used to think - amp/pre/source....then speakers... I had what I considered a great amp and pre with phase tech mini monitors and a sub. bottom line - you get more bang with the speaker in my opinion...sure they won't sound as good as they could ...but it is my opinion to get the speakers - then save for the components....

One more opinion....consider a stereo amp vs the 5 channel. That will save money and you will be able to get a nice stereo amp for less - and have more $$$ for better speakers - use (I think you said you had a receiver) the receiver as the pre. Drive the mains with the new stereo amp and drive the surrounds/center with the receiver - if you are so inclined. As time goes on - you can buy another stereo amp or 5 channel amp...and use it for the surrounds or a 7.1 system.