NEW TO ML - Aerius-i now in service

[Nucleafueled]

Hello Friends,

The pedigree of my Aerius-i's is uncertain. The seller had the classic nonsense saga; that they had been in storage for X years etc... I drove 225 miles to acquire them. Only in the late stages of inspecting them did I notice one of the dustcaps on one of the woofers was Concave (#8271B) while the other was Convex (#8271C)...? The seller shrugged it off as no big deal. Most buyers probably would have headed for the door but I was too tired from the road, and this was THE DREAM after all -"I'll figure it out later, they're Martin Logans!" I told myself. When I got them home and isolated just the woofers for listening, it was immediately clear that one woofer was brighter and punchy, the other a bit lower and muddy. Dream going great so far! lol. I wrote to the seller, so far, you guessed it, not a word back.

Okay, so what do I think of them? Ummm, can I say this here? Disappointed. After years of bright and crisp B&W's I found the ML Aerius-i's to be flat and lifeless with no dynamic punch or clarity. They sound like my other speaker sets would sound if 2 or 3 large comforters were thrown over them. The amp is a Crown XLS-10000, running straight from an Onkyo SACD player with some modest Audioquest cables.

Years ago I was a fanatic for tweaks and cables, footers, and all manner of money draining stuff. I can't and won't do that anymore. I only submit to decent cables and that's it. Are these ML speakers just an acquired taste? Are ML Electrostatics a love/hate item like the Bose 901's?

My room is a concrete Art Studio, 18'x40', see pic. My favorite speakers for the space have been a pair of huge Cerwin Vega E-715's that I have. They are Giants that pump out copious amounts of crisp, neck snapping, highly energized sound. I put the Aerius-i's in their footprint and just about cried when I heard a little whisper (whimper perhaps) of muffled sound slowly rolling out of the Aerius-i panels. They sounded half asleep and in no rush to follow the bits and bytes of the CD that was instructing them. Wow, and ugghh. No, I didn't expect the Aerius-i's to match the sheer brute of the CV's but, geez.... so tiny a sound from these Aerius-i...?

I like to take things apart so naturally I had them broken down in 20 minutes, had the Stator panel free and washed in my work sink. A couple of hours later I had them back in service. The cleaning may have improved the sound somewhat but the above description still applies. I wrote to ML support with my thoughts and they suggested I audition some NEW ML offerings; a true salesman! Yes, I have no doubt that a fresh pair of Ethos would be a big improvement.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Nuc-

Note* My connection was not suitable for image uploads at this time,

 

[Nucleafueled]

A brief follow-up to the above. No more complaints, promise! When I had the Stator panel exposed for cleaning I noticed that most areas of the Mylar were very taut but some areas were less so and one area near the bottom was very loose. Is this common? Does performance suffer in those areas of the panel? Could it lead to panel failure, arcing, popping, or other issues?

Many Thanks,

Nuc-

 

[eknuds01]

Whoa! Are you about to open Pandora's box!

A couple of comments:

The speakers were stored for a long time...in what conditions? Tons of dust and high humidity? Excessive heat? I am also somewhat surprised that the speakers weren't set up as to facilitate a demo of some sort.

You noticed some woofer damage and from what I've read that is not a terribly difficult item to replace.

The room you describe is enormous. Without a clear diagram (listening position and location of other furniture) it's hard to give some feedback here. But an 18 x 40 ft room is very, very big in my opinion.

I have had owned my ML Aerius i speakers for well over a decade. By and large the critical reviews and feedback from other owners has been overwhelmingly positive. In general, ML speakers are rather tough to beat at their price point. We have many members on this forum who not only own several different sorts of speakers (at many different price points) but who've also auditioned speakers at various trade shows and conventions. I am willing to bet that just about all of these people will tell you that ML speakers can hold their own even against speakers costing 2x as much (if not more).

This particular generation of ML speakers can also be bi-amped. Any number of people will tell you that the optimum configuration is a tube amp for the panels and a beefy SS amp for the woofers. I just have a Sunfire amp powering my Logans and I think they sound just fine.

Having said all of that the ML sound is not for everyone. I happen to like the B&W sound as well and I will concede that what comes out of these two brands of speakers are markedly different (but both quite good!).

Suggestions for you:

You already mentioned that you cleaned the panels, but it's also possible they are worn out (or damaged). I am not sure if it's worth replacing the panels, but ML does indeed sell aftermarket parts.

If the woofers are damaged - replace them.

Is it possible to audition these speakers in a different (smaller) room? You might be very pleasantly surprised, especially after a woofer replacement and panel cleaning.

The suggestion to audition other ML speakers isn't a terrible one considering that you may spend several hundred (maybe substantially more) on replacement parts. I am wondering if you try out the Electromotion, Summit/X, Spire, etc what would your impression be then?


*************

Bottom line: I think you bought some damaged speakers (woofers - no question) and it remains to be seen if the panels are also messed up. I wouldn't be so critical of the electrostats based on this experience alone.

 

[Nucleafueled]

Thanks for the reply.

To clarify; I was TOLD that the speakers were stored. Who knows the real truth. Secondly, the Woofers don't seem to be damaged, they are just not identical items and they don't have the same model #'s on their magnets, and they don't sound the same. I will need to make do with what I have. Had I been in a position to purchase ML's latest offerings -I would have done so. I just needed to vent some of those first impressions because they were so dramatic to me. I do believe they are somewhat of an acquired taste. My space is very large and I probably should put these speakers into service elsewhere, at home perhaps. They do LOOK great in my Art Studio but it's a space that requires some BIG sound makers.

Nuc-

 

[edwinr]

What a dilemma. To be frank, your desire to acquire ML's has probably over ridden your bulls**t radar when buying off the seller. It's not a dig at you. I've been caught myself, and not too long ago either...

But getting back to the speakers. They''re a pair of ML's, so you're starting from a good place. I agree about the woofers. Replace both and get some symmetry back. I'm not sure about the Crown amp. I've heard these amps before, but mainly running pro audio gear. Can you try another amp before trying to sort the panels out? Just to make sure.

Also, if this dude has replaced the woofers, are we sure he's put the correct wire in the correct hole? (sorry to overwhelm you with my technical expertise)

About the panels... a difficult one. If you continue having issues, replace them. You will be left with a pristine pair of Martin Logan speakers that will give you years and years of service.

Lastly. Is it worth it?

I won't say "Only you can answer that". I will say, unless you have the money to buy a nice pre-loved of Vista or even Vantage speakers or perhaps a newish pair of Theos speakers, it IS worth it. The Aerius i is a really nice speaker.

 

[Tosh]

I hope we can help you recover the ESL magic hidden within those Aeriuses!

First things first, do the bias supplies and music sensor work? Does the light come on, and do they charge up in the first few seconds when first playing music? When only connecting the ESL section (no woofer) does the L and R speaker have the same volume output?

Secondly, there should be no loose sections of the ESL diaphragm. It is possible for the bottom portion to get flattened from improper storage or handling, and it may be possible to restore the proper curvature. If you see wrinkles or tears or non-tight areas, or if the ESL sandwich is separating, you may want to call Russ at justrealmusic for a restoration of the ESL panels.

Can you measure the DC impedance (Ohms) of each woofer? They both need to be 4 Ohm woofers for the stock crossover to work correctly...

I'm impressed that you got them cleaned and dried in just a couple of hours, so are you certain that they are dry?

 

[Nucleafueled]

Thanks for the thoughts all,

I will try some other Amplification to see if that perks them up. The actual panels seemed in good shape when I had them apart. They were coated with black soot, likely smoke. They had been apart before because of the tears in the weather stripping and double sided tape. It was not easy to get those outer grills off without inflicting damage to the Mylar, but alas', it had already been slightly torn on an upper corner by a previous user. The area of damage was a bit loose so I used some creative methods and some very sticky thin clear packing tape to grab it along an edge, and pull it taut then re-affix to the edge. If I had paid thousands of dollars for these speakers I wouldn't dare do any of this, but for some reason once I had those side rails off I felt I could do it -and not wreck them completely.

Overall I think the panels are in good shape, and now they're clean. I used a no-heat gun on all sides and absorbent cloth to dry them. They may not have been absolutely 100% dry as a bone but when I lit them up they sounded fine, no sizzling, cracks, pops, or other electrical anomalies or firestorms occurred. Yes, the red lights work, and when plugged in they make sound immediately. The mismatched woofers are more of an buyer/seller irritant than a real world issue in this big space that has two 21" D-Firing Subs pumping away in the recesses and the speakers so far apart. I think I will live with them for a bit, drive them with a different power source and at worst take them home or put them on Craigslist. My space likely suits the larger ML models but sadly the wallet doesn't.

Just out of curiosity, how much is an ESL panel overhaul?
What is performed on the panel?
Stretching fresh Mylar; can we do it ourselves?

edwinr - I will check the wiring.
Tosh - I'll dig out my meter, thnx. Vol output seems equal for each with no Woofers lit.

Many Thanks,

Nuc-

 

[eknuds01]

Direct panel replacement from ML will likely cost more that what you paid for the speakers.

However, you might be able to get them re-furbished for a few hundred dollars. I'd emal the folks at justrealmusic (per another poster's suggestion) and see what he will charge.

 

[Nucleafueled]

Hello MLO's,

Russ just wrote me back from justrealmusic. Total Aerius-i panel refurbishment is $300 for the pair. Wow, that sounds reasonable to me; I'm seriously considering this. I read up on all of the DIY sites for building panels and by the time I bought the materials and built a jig and -of course messed up a few times, I could drop $300 easily and possibly end up with a bunch of crumpled Mylar on my floor.


What do you guys think? Good deal? Does he do good work, and will these speakers sound close to fresh-98'?

Nuc~

 

[Tosh]

It was not easy to get those outer grills off without inflicting damage to the Mylar, but alas', it had already been slightly torn on an upper corner by a previous user. The area of damage was a bit loose so I used some creative methods and some very sticky thin clear packing tape to grab it along an edge, and pull it taut then re-affix to the edge.

I don't know how to interpret "those outer grills" or the damage to the mylar, but if Russ still agreed to refurbish them, then he will get them back to working condition.

 

[Nucleafueled]

Tosh,

Sorry. I'm probably not using the proper terminology. When I took apart the sandwich of the electrostatic panel, 2 metal outer 'grills' etc... Anyway, it had been apart previously but that double sided tape was still a bear. Russ said not a problem since he will be stripping them down completely and removing all tapes and glues from the metal etc...

On another subject, a local guy has a mint looking set of ML Mosaic's for sale for $500. Any thoughts on that model? His pics are outstanding, really sharp looking speaker.

Nuc~

 

[Tosh]

"Stator" is the term you're looking for. Prying apart the ESL sandwich is better left for experts.

Mosaic? If it's not an ESL, then it does not have ESL magic...

 

[Nucleafueled]

Tosh,

Seems that the Newbie has rustled the feathers of the veteran. I was glad to clarify what you already knew I was saying but... ahem, enough. Mosaic no good, ESL magic? I've yet to hear it. Yes, I know, I need thousands of dollars in other equipment first.... been there done that. I want the product to work for me a bit, ya know? To show me a sign that something good is in there. Again, I don't hear it. Just sayin'

Nuc1

 

[Larry]

Please be patient, Nuc. Once your Aerius panels have been repaired and put in service I think that you will sing a different tune, even without fancy amps and cables.

 

[Nucleafueled]

Thank you Larry, a good guy!