rower30
Active member
Hello Martin Logan owners,
I pretty new to the electrostatic driver family, having owned my CLX arts since late December. Did I EVER think I'd buy "fussy" electrostatic speakers? Positively NOT. Can I ever think I can live without a set now that I've broken-in my CLX Arts? NO!
I listen to FOLK type music most of the time (most, but I sneak-in Nickel Back and Supertramp ETC, too) and the CLX are simply stunningly good at playing MUSIC, no more and no less. The ability to avoid all the coloration of a driver is really, really, nice to mostly get rid of. The fact that the whole panel plays music helps keep distortion low. A dynamic driver has to push a BIG SPL number from a relatively small surface. How do they do it as well as they do? Adding more conical drivers usually hurts more than it helps.
But, that's dynamic drivers for you, always adding enough color to make you move to the next speaker in search of a plausibly real "sound". I've used ADS 810's, Dhalquist DQ-10's with dual DQ-1W subs, B&W 801'as (1979 models), Vandersteen Quatro Woods, Dynaudio C4's and now the Martin Logan CLX.
When I first heard Martin Logan speakers (summit-X's) they simply "broke" my speakers. At first, I could ignore my system for a day or two and then go back and enjoy it. Over time spent with the Summit-X's, the sound simply won my mind over. I could no longer "forget" that sound! So real, so much the music and so good.
Bob Gassel said I really needed the CLX. OK, what are those? Well, now I know what those are because a set is in my sound room. I actually bought them with out audition based off of the Summit-X's.
Some observations in no real order so you experienced owners help me out;
1.0 The CLX have absolutely impeccable performance and dynamics above the mid bass frequencies. Into the mid bass, they do seem to keep the tonality in superb fashion, but the dynamic headroom is still behind cone drivers. But, cone drivers strip away all the tonality that makes music sound plausibly real. And, that needed WHAM isn't needed so often I give-up the rest for a small slice of the musical pie.
2.0 Amplifiers and the CLX seem to be somewhat more voodoo doll than real voodoo. There is little current draw above 1 kHz in audio, and darn near nothing above 10KHz let alone20 kHz, so the impedance dropping to the audio X-former winding resistance at 20 kHz isn’t as big a deal as some report. My Moon W-8 drives them easily, and has all that good SS can deliver. I tend to think a tube amp SHOULD be like a tube, and SS SHOULD be like SS. I like the fast, clean, well-controlled sound of good solid state. The CLX have not changed that at all. So you don't need tubes to enjoy this product.
3.0 Every decent high-end speaker of recent vintage has sounded best in ONE spot. CLX is just like the rest, with the exception that they do fall-off the peak more with lateral seating positions. But, those cone driver speakers can't even get close to the CLX in their relatively wide sweet spot (much wider than the Quatro's).
4.0 I use two DD10+ subs that go with the C4's, too. Yes, the C4's are NOT working below 40 Hz very well, even though they reportedly do deep bass (NOT!) so I added subs. Great, now I have flat bass to 25 Hz. The Quatro Woods I owned prior to the C4's were STUPID GOOD in the bass with their powered internal subs. After the Quatro woods, deep bass is NEVER the same without powered subs. So, the use of subs with the CLX was a natural. OK, maybe the stereo DD10+ subs aren't the best with the CLX, but I had them! To my ear, they are very well integrated after EQ. I don't play ear splitting loud (85 dB nominal SPL) so they do fine for music. Thinking about the new 212 subs, though.
5.0 I moved the CLX 5 feet (actually a little more) from the rear wall to get that nice expansive image they throw out, much like the C4's. They are in an "L" shaped room with one in the open end of the "L" and the other near the wall (yea, that sucks). But, the dipole effect seems to mitigate the sidewall pretty well on the right speaker. I have them about seven feet apart.
Question - I see a LOT of set-ups with the speaker ten or more feet apart with all sorts of equipment piled up between them. To my ear, this is a big no, no on image detail and soundstage. I put NOTHING between the speakers and keep them close enough together so the center image is solid and even. Maybe at a higher SPL ten feet will work?
6.0 Toe-in is a big problem, too, to my ear. Too much and your head is in a vise. Too little and there is no central image of proper proportions. I sit about 13 feet from them, and have just three inches of toe-in from the inside panel. Of course, rooms will vary the requirement. The CLX are so good, that it is EASY to get the midrange right. The human voice will simply jump out at you and say, I'M HERE! I don't seem to be having a hard time with set-up, far less than my Quatro woods, for example.
7.0 Talk about easy to set-up TWO listening spots! These LIGHT speakers area cinch to prop-up on a spike and set into another position for off-axis listening if needed. Can't do that with 500 pound MAGICO Q5's. The CLX may have some spread, but it is an easy speaker to live with during set-up and moving.
8.0 The sound, Oh yes the sound. Like have you ever felt stupid for the last 40 years when you finally hear your records like they were supposed to be? You just can't fake the human voice, and your mind KNOWs when it is a high-end stereo and just plain MUSIC. The CLX are just not there most of the time. They have no high frequency response, they just play the instruments, for instance. The concept of "drivers" is gone. Midrange is like magic, no dynamic driver vibrations that add "color" so you can tell a Dynaudio from a Focal from a MAGICO (all have resonance coloration’s). The CLX are about as colorless as I've heard. That "other" electrostatic speaker ADDS coloration to the mix, I have to ask WHY?
9.0 Livability is fine. They don't kill bugs for you, or shock your friends and enemies. They are way more kid friendly than dynamic drivers with their tough metal grills. OK, a scamp with a straightened paper clip can poke a hole. But, a dynamic driver will be hurt far worse than the panel will be with the same treatment. As a matter of fact, a C4 falling over is likely a bigger problem than a CLX. I have no young kids, but they would be flatter young kids with a C4 on them then a CLX. Cats'? yes, they might try to use the metal grills as a scratching post but it isn't too satisfying, and the inner PET film is tucked away far enough to be avoided. I see no livability issues with modern Martin Logan speakers.
10.0 I use the following down stream and don't think you need to be crazy with electronics to get good sound.
PASS LABS XP-10
SIM-AUDIO MOON W-8
VPI CLASSIC 3.0 with JMW memorial tone arm
SUMIKO Blackbird MC
SIM AUDIO MOON LP-5.3
OPPO BDP-83SE optical drive
Shunyata HYDRA TALOS AC conditioner
Interconnect Cables - All proprietary Air Core technology.
Speaker Cables - Proprietary.
So to say the sound of the CLX is as close to real as I've heard is an understatement. For those that don't need ear splitting volumes (note, the CLX will play LOUD to ~95+ dB!) and enjoy truly lifelike sound, this product is simply amazingly good. DO NOT listen to a set that is not broken-in, though. You won't capture near what they can do. These speakers do take to 100 hours of break-in recommended. They do need room behind the speaker (5 feet or so). And, don't sit near field (near field tries to remove room interactions from spray and pray conical drivers) like a dynamic speaker as they couple sound to the room differently than cone drivers. You have to sit back some for the proper soundfield. The CLX are much less room interactive than my pretty benign in this respect C4's, for instance.
As is the case with most real high-end sound, these are a personal speaker, not a broadcast PA system. They sound best, by far, in a reasonably manageable sweet spot maybe three feet across in my room.
The biggest (something is biggest) down side to the CLX is the softer mid bass WHAP that the bass panel's dynamic range can't capture. But, for 85% of the music they DO capture the dynamics AND add a tonality to the bass that is very rare in a transducer. Need the SLAM? Listen to the SIMMIT-X, with powered subs. They have SLAM and give-up some of the midrange magic of the CLX, though. Your taste in each will quickly be decided. I won't even consider the lowest bass a detriment as adding subs easily fills that in and for thousands and thousands less than competing speakers with no subs and that can't even touch the CLX magic in those two wonderful panels. I won't even get into how HEAVY competing speakers are that try to remove driver and box coloration’s. Like, do you know a contractor with a hydraulic floor lift?
If you don't want to have audio withdrawal, don't ever listen to a set of CLX speaker’s set-up right. The sound is something you simply cannot forget, and will always return to.
I'm likely preaching to the choir, but man you guys and gals got it right on the Martin Logan CLX product.
Best,
rower30
I pretty new to the electrostatic driver family, having owned my CLX arts since late December. Did I EVER think I'd buy "fussy" electrostatic speakers? Positively NOT. Can I ever think I can live without a set now that I've broken-in my CLX Arts? NO!
I listen to FOLK type music most of the time (most, but I sneak-in Nickel Back and Supertramp ETC, too) and the CLX are simply stunningly good at playing MUSIC, no more and no less. The ability to avoid all the coloration of a driver is really, really, nice to mostly get rid of. The fact that the whole panel plays music helps keep distortion low. A dynamic driver has to push a BIG SPL number from a relatively small surface. How do they do it as well as they do? Adding more conical drivers usually hurts more than it helps.
But, that's dynamic drivers for you, always adding enough color to make you move to the next speaker in search of a plausibly real "sound". I've used ADS 810's, Dhalquist DQ-10's with dual DQ-1W subs, B&W 801'as (1979 models), Vandersteen Quatro Woods, Dynaudio C4's and now the Martin Logan CLX.
When I first heard Martin Logan speakers (summit-X's) they simply "broke" my speakers. At first, I could ignore my system for a day or two and then go back and enjoy it. Over time spent with the Summit-X's, the sound simply won my mind over. I could no longer "forget" that sound! So real, so much the music and so good.
Bob Gassel said I really needed the CLX. OK, what are those? Well, now I know what those are because a set is in my sound room. I actually bought them with out audition based off of the Summit-X's.
Some observations in no real order so you experienced owners help me out;
1.0 The CLX have absolutely impeccable performance and dynamics above the mid bass frequencies. Into the mid bass, they do seem to keep the tonality in superb fashion, but the dynamic headroom is still behind cone drivers. But, cone drivers strip away all the tonality that makes music sound plausibly real. And, that needed WHAM isn't needed so often I give-up the rest for a small slice of the musical pie.
2.0 Amplifiers and the CLX seem to be somewhat more voodoo doll than real voodoo. There is little current draw above 1 kHz in audio, and darn near nothing above 10KHz let alone20 kHz, so the impedance dropping to the audio X-former winding resistance at 20 kHz isn’t as big a deal as some report. My Moon W-8 drives them easily, and has all that good SS can deliver. I tend to think a tube amp SHOULD be like a tube, and SS SHOULD be like SS. I like the fast, clean, well-controlled sound of good solid state. The CLX have not changed that at all. So you don't need tubes to enjoy this product.
3.0 Every decent high-end speaker of recent vintage has sounded best in ONE spot. CLX is just like the rest, with the exception that they do fall-off the peak more with lateral seating positions. But, those cone driver speakers can't even get close to the CLX in their relatively wide sweet spot (much wider than the Quatro's).
4.0 I use two DD10+ subs that go with the C4's, too. Yes, the C4's are NOT working below 40 Hz very well, even though they reportedly do deep bass (NOT!) so I added subs. Great, now I have flat bass to 25 Hz. The Quatro Woods I owned prior to the C4's were STUPID GOOD in the bass with their powered internal subs. After the Quatro woods, deep bass is NEVER the same without powered subs. So, the use of subs with the CLX was a natural. OK, maybe the stereo DD10+ subs aren't the best with the CLX, but I had them! To my ear, they are very well integrated after EQ. I don't play ear splitting loud (85 dB nominal SPL) so they do fine for music. Thinking about the new 212 subs, though.
5.0 I moved the CLX 5 feet (actually a little more) from the rear wall to get that nice expansive image they throw out, much like the C4's. They are in an "L" shaped room with one in the open end of the "L" and the other near the wall (yea, that sucks). But, the dipole effect seems to mitigate the sidewall pretty well on the right speaker. I have them about seven feet apart.
Question - I see a LOT of set-ups with the speaker ten or more feet apart with all sorts of equipment piled up between them. To my ear, this is a big no, no on image detail and soundstage. I put NOTHING between the speakers and keep them close enough together so the center image is solid and even. Maybe at a higher SPL ten feet will work?
6.0 Toe-in is a big problem, too, to my ear. Too much and your head is in a vise. Too little and there is no central image of proper proportions. I sit about 13 feet from them, and have just three inches of toe-in from the inside panel. Of course, rooms will vary the requirement. The CLX are so good, that it is EASY to get the midrange right. The human voice will simply jump out at you and say, I'M HERE! I don't seem to be having a hard time with set-up, far less than my Quatro woods, for example.
7.0 Talk about easy to set-up TWO listening spots! These LIGHT speakers area cinch to prop-up on a spike and set into another position for off-axis listening if needed. Can't do that with 500 pound MAGICO Q5's. The CLX may have some spread, but it is an easy speaker to live with during set-up and moving.
8.0 The sound, Oh yes the sound. Like have you ever felt stupid for the last 40 years when you finally hear your records like they were supposed to be? You just can't fake the human voice, and your mind KNOWs when it is a high-end stereo and just plain MUSIC. The CLX are just not there most of the time. They have no high frequency response, they just play the instruments, for instance. The concept of "drivers" is gone. Midrange is like magic, no dynamic driver vibrations that add "color" so you can tell a Dynaudio from a Focal from a MAGICO (all have resonance coloration’s). The CLX are about as colorless as I've heard. That "other" electrostatic speaker ADDS coloration to the mix, I have to ask WHY?
9.0 Livability is fine. They don't kill bugs for you, or shock your friends and enemies. They are way more kid friendly than dynamic drivers with their tough metal grills. OK, a scamp with a straightened paper clip can poke a hole. But, a dynamic driver will be hurt far worse than the panel will be with the same treatment. As a matter of fact, a C4 falling over is likely a bigger problem than a CLX. I have no young kids, but they would be flatter young kids with a C4 on them then a CLX. Cats'? yes, they might try to use the metal grills as a scratching post but it isn't too satisfying, and the inner PET film is tucked away far enough to be avoided. I see no livability issues with modern Martin Logan speakers.
10.0 I use the following down stream and don't think you need to be crazy with electronics to get good sound.
PASS LABS XP-10
SIM-AUDIO MOON W-8
VPI CLASSIC 3.0 with JMW memorial tone arm
SUMIKO Blackbird MC
SIM AUDIO MOON LP-5.3
OPPO BDP-83SE optical drive
Shunyata HYDRA TALOS AC conditioner
Interconnect Cables - All proprietary Air Core technology.
Speaker Cables - Proprietary.
So to say the sound of the CLX is as close to real as I've heard is an understatement. For those that don't need ear splitting volumes (note, the CLX will play LOUD to ~95+ dB!) and enjoy truly lifelike sound, this product is simply amazingly good. DO NOT listen to a set that is not broken-in, though. You won't capture near what they can do. These speakers do take to 100 hours of break-in recommended. They do need room behind the speaker (5 feet or so). And, don't sit near field (near field tries to remove room interactions from spray and pray conical drivers) like a dynamic speaker as they couple sound to the room differently than cone drivers. You have to sit back some for the proper soundfield. The CLX are much less room interactive than my pretty benign in this respect C4's, for instance.
As is the case with most real high-end sound, these are a personal speaker, not a broadcast PA system. They sound best, by far, in a reasonably manageable sweet spot maybe three feet across in my room.
The biggest (something is biggest) down side to the CLX is the softer mid bass WHAP that the bass panel's dynamic range can't capture. But, for 85% of the music they DO capture the dynamics AND add a tonality to the bass that is very rare in a transducer. Need the SLAM? Listen to the SIMMIT-X, with powered subs. They have SLAM and give-up some of the midrange magic of the CLX, though. Your taste in each will quickly be decided. I won't even consider the lowest bass a detriment as adding subs easily fills that in and for thousands and thousands less than competing speakers with no subs and that can't even touch the CLX magic in those two wonderful panels. I won't even get into how HEAVY competing speakers are that try to remove driver and box coloration’s. Like, do you know a contractor with a hydraulic floor lift?
If you don't want to have audio withdrawal, don't ever listen to a set of CLX speaker’s set-up right. The sound is something you simply cannot forget, and will always return to.
I'm likely preaching to the choir, but man you guys and gals got it right on the Martin Logan CLX product.
Best,
rower30
