New "ARC Genesis" for compatible ML speakers and subs

[sleepysurf]

Just got an email notification (from Anthem) about a new version of ARC that is compatible with the newest ML speakers, and incorporates PBK for compatible ML subs... https://www.anthemarc.com/arc-genesis/index.php

New features include:

Support for Mac & Windows
New target curve adjustment options, including deep bass and high frequencies
Save, stop, start, resume measurements, and remeasure individual speakers
Improved user interface
Improved algorithms
Set unique maximum correction frequencies for each set of speakers
Automatic speaker/subwoofer phase alignment for Anthem STR Series products

Can't wait to try it!

Also found this interesting history about how ARC/PBK evolved... https://www.anthemarc.com/advanced-topics/the-history-of-arc.php

 

[sleepysurf]

Just ran it with my Expressions, in default "easy" mode (vs. the Pro option). First thing it did was install new firmware for the speakers. I then used my standard 5 measurement locations, and the resultant curves showed my (usual) ~8 dB bass null from ~50-60 Hz. Unlike the older ARC software, this new version seems to apply a bit more smoothing of the bass peaks, thereby minimizing the effect of the null. Upon my first listen, the bass is slightly more subdued, but smoother sounding. Next up, I'll play around with the Pro mode, and see what it can do. Thus far, I'm impressed with the upgraded software.

 

[ttocs]

Thank you for posting this! I haven't received other notification so would not have known. I'll give it a go this weekend.

 

[JonFo]

Thanks for sharing the news and your results Alan. Good to hear it delivers improved results.

When you run the Pro version/mode, that allows you to pick the freq. range corrections apply to, right? What range will you use?

Cheers.

 

[sleepysurf]

The Pro mode allows far more "customization" than I need. At most, I'll probably just "tilt" up the lower bass a tad, creating my "house curve," but not risking damage to any woofers. However, I'll need to experiment and decide if best to do with subs alone, or with the Expressions as well, and see how I can minimize the "bass null" at my main listening position.

Even though I love the "tube coloration" of my C-J CT5 preamp, I'm now thinking of trying an Anthem STR preamp, as it would allow me to tweak my entire setup as a single entity.

 

[JonFo]

Bass nulls are the toughest to fix, as no amount of EQ can really compensate directly. Since you have 2 subs, moving them to different positions is likely the most effective way of addressing that. But I know the challenge is that it is in a mixed-use environment. Hopefully, the new ARC will help.

And you know I'll be a big supporter of the idea of an STR preamp to gain full ARC capabilities. Does the new Genesis version have the concept of ARC for the subs + ARC on the speakers + System ARC?

 

[sleepysurf]

Bass nulls are the toughest to fix, as no amount of EQ can really compensate directly. Since you have 2 subs, moving them to different positions is likely the most effective way of addressing that. But I know the challenge is that it is in a mixed-use environment. Hopefully, the new ARC will help.

And you know I'll be a big supporter of the idea of an STR preamp to gain full ARC capabilities. Does the new Genesis version have the concept of ARC for the subs + ARC on the speakers + System ARC?

Yep, I agree fully! Thus far, with the dual mono BF210's (where WAF requires I place them <g>), they don't adequately fill the null. In fact, the subs are "fighting" the Expressions, because I can't run ARC system-wide, so actually muddying up the bass. My wife is going out of town next week, so I'll be able to play around quite a bit with moving the subs, and seeing what I can do with ARC Genesis separately for Mains and Subs.

Here's the initial Genesis results for the Expressions alone. As you can see, it did a nice job of flattening the peaks to minimize the nulls.



I have a local Anthem dealer, and will see if they'll let me demo the STR preamp.

 

[RUR]

Bass nulls are the toughest to fix, as no amount of EQ can really compensate directly. Since you have 2 subs, moving them to different positions is likely the most effective way of addressing that. But I know the challenge is that it is in a mixed-use environment. Hopefully, the new ARC will help.

And you know I'll be a big supporter of the idea of an STR preamp to gain full ARC capabilities. Does the new Genesis version have the concept of ARC for the subs + ARC on the speakers + System ARC?

AFAICT, ARC is still minimum phase (IIR) only, Jonathan.

 

[GW1800]

Yes I see they finally came out with the anticipated April release in May - such is software its always late regardless of the company. Been waiting for the much anticipated Aurender different skins for even longer and still waiting. Also not sure what happened but I did complain that the 210/212 subs were not on the original list of ML products so was that part of the delay? I have no idea but sure glad they included it now or was it just a typo on the original list before??? I plan on using the new software on my 212's in the music room and also on my media room with my AVM 60 and 13's. Anxious to try it out.

 

[sleepysurf]

FYI, the newest ARC Genesis beta (1.2.2.0) has been released... https://www.anthemarc.com/downloads/beta.php

It reportedly fixes some bugs with the prior version, so probably worth a spin, even though it's still beta.

 

[twich54]

so probably worth a spin, even though it's still beta.

you mean the VHS version will be better ?

sorry Alan, I couldn't resist !

 

[ttocs]

Ya know, I have been thinking lately of incorporating my subs along with the 13A's in an attempt to eek out some very low bass but the process seems a bit murky. I've been very happy with the bass response from the speakers overall, but maybe it could be augmented in the nether region?

I've only calibrated twice with the last time being in July I think. Since then I've moved the speakers, and changed the toe-in very radically. The bass didn't seem to suffer, but what do I know? So I calibrated tonight using the same version ARC as last July and the bass is very noticeably more pronounced in the lower end! The sound is even excellenter (I make up words) than before! Looking at the resulting curves I'm left with thinking my subs wouldn't be up to the task of adding any value below what the 13A's are now providing. Am I wrong?

I'm looking for some assistance in interpreting the curves to confirm what I think - that subs probably wouldn't be a benefit (at least not my current subs). My current subs are only rated down to 22Hz and the 13A's look like they are calibrated to about that freq and at a better level of tolerance: My 13A 22Hz@-2 or -3dB (if I'm reading the corrected curve properly?), Sumiko S.10 22Hz @-6dB (rated spec).

Frankly, I'm reticent about adding subs just so things are kept simple, but if there is a good gain to be had then I'd be ok with that also.

Thoughts?

 

[sleepysurf]

Speaker/sub location, listening position(s), and room geometry all play a critical role in quality of bass (not to mention the entire frequency response and soundstage). Your ARC measurements are very typical, and it appears you're getting a combined bass response from both Expressions that's down <3 dB at ~20 Hz, with a (reasonably correctable) null from the left speaker. Unless you want/need more palpable bass in that lowest octave, or in other listening positions, you're probably fine without adding the subs. If you also use the system for home theater, you might consider just using the Sumiko subs for LFE effects.

If you like to "tweak" a bit, you could also play around with ARC Genesis in the Pro mode, and tilt the bass response correction up 2-3 dB in the lowest octave (or, alternatively, manually dial up the woofer control knobs to your liking).

 

[ttocs]

Unless you want/need more palpable bass in that lowest octave, or in other listening positions, you're probably fine without adding the subs. If you also use the system for home theater, you might consider just using the Sumiko subs for LFE effects.

If you like to "tweak" a bit, you could also play around with ARC Genesis in the Pro mode, and tilt the bass response correction up 2-3 dB in the lowest octave (or, alternatively, manually dial up the woofer control knobs to your liking).

After calibrating last night I sat down and listened for the next 4 hours and was shocked at the difference! Obviously the speakers were still pretty new last time I did this, and yes they've been moved and toed, but holy smoly! it's a huge difference!

I concluded that I won't add subs. My subs have only been used for LFE and woofer for the smaller speakers since getting the Expressions, so that's what will be their job ongoing.

"Tilt". Now you see? You taught me what the means, thank you! I was wondering about that. I might play with that but the way the speakers sound now is quite fabulous and I don't really know if I'd be able to hear the difference. But . . . I've always been a tinkerer since my very early childhood. Since I was 4 years old my parents used to find my in the linen closet with a butter knife, which they allowed my to use, using it as a screwdriver to disassemble my toys to find out how the electric motors and gears worked. They were not happy until I proved over time that I was always able to reassemble the toys and get them working again.

 

[FruitloopSR]

Great posts Will have to give Arc a try.
M.