Neolith Purchase Order Has Been Placed

[RUR]

For example, my Prodigy's bass drops off at low volume and I have to boost the bass to compensate.

Gary, this is a phenomenon of our hearing, originally documented by Fletcher Munson, at work. Barring active compensation as found in some AVR's, any speaker will sound bass (and treble) shy at lower volumes. I don't imagine the Neolith is exempt from this phenomenon.

 

[GaryG]

Gary, this is a phenomenon of our hearing, originally documented by Fletcher Munson, at work. Barring active compensation as found in some AVR's, any speaker will sound bass (and treble) shy at lower volumes. I don't imagine the Neolith is exempt from this phenomenon.

Ken, thanks for bringing that up. Yes I am aware of that. Our ears are most sensitive in the frequency range of the human voice (seems natural). For the past 5 years I been boosting the bass at low volumes. The Prodigy's seemed to me to subtract more than just what is natural and I am sure the Neoliths do not compensate. BTW human hearing has a more even level to all frequencies as the music plays louder and this may contribute to what makes music sound better at elevated volumes.

Gary

 

[RUR]

BTW human hearing has a more even level to all frequencies as the music plays louder

As indicated by Fletcher Munson and subsequent.

and this may contribute to what makes music sound better at elevated volumes.

In the absence of any correction, as is the case in a pure analog setup, yes. Trivial to compensate for lower volume with the right digital tools, though the lack of a volume standard in music production makes this a vexed pursuit. Makes more sense for movies as they generally do adhere to standards.

 

[Bernard]

I

As indicated by Fletcher Munson and subsequent.


In the absence of any correction, as is the case in a pure analog setup, yes. Trivial to compensate for lower volume with the right digital tools, though the lack of a volume standard in music production makes this a vexed pursuit. Makes more sense for movies as they generally do adhere to standards.

I find the sound levels in movie theaters way too high, so I very rarely go.

 

[GaryG]

As had been stated earlier I have 3 different power amps to test on the Neoliths and I now have 60 hours on the McIntosh MC1.2KW's and 25 hours each on the Bryston 28B-SST^2's and Pass Labs XA-160's. That's enough to give me a pretty good grip as to what is going on. I have now placed the Neoliths 7.5 feet off the front wall and the outer edges of each speaker 3 feet from the side walls. That makes the centers of the Neolith panels 10 feet apart. I marked off listening test positions at 8, 10, 12 and 16 feet from the centers of each speaker. I metered each piece of music and listened at 70, 80, 90 and 100 dB max values. Of course each of the amps was also given the "what can you do at your max test". As I have posted in the past, I attend CES every year and can often be heard saying "so much great equipment and I have too few rooms in which to put them." All three of these amps are great equipment with similar price points and here are some of my impressions/opinions.

MC1.2KW - Warm, great vocals especially on the older recordings. A little thin on the bass not great punch. Kick drums for example. Ran out of gas a little too easily (some of the running out of gas problem I believe belongs to the thirst of the speakers) speakers had good protective circuits and the shut-down was soft.

Bryston 28B-SST^2 - Great Bass, Great brass (Horns, sax etc). Edgy on the vocals especially for older recordings. Amps clipped at 106 dB on Drake's "I started from the bottom". At clipping it just felt a little scary so I shut them down.

Let me illustrate the differences with a few examples. I bought my first two albums in the summer of '67. One was Johnny Cash's greatest hits volume 2 so I will use 3 songs from the more recent hits album CASH. Recorded in 1957 "I Walk the Line" on the McIntosh the vocals were smooth, warm. It sounded like a fresh recording. On the Brystons the vocals were edgy and sounded dated. Next we have the 1961 recording of "Ring of Fire". It opens with in your face brass. In '61 that was novel. The brass on the McIntosh was ok but didn't truly stand out. ON the Brystons the brass came to life, was in my face and I had a big smile. The bass guitar is also prominent here with the Brystons and not so much with the McIntosh.

more coming soon.

 

[Joey_V]

Awesome dude... I love it. Drake Started from the Bottom on Neoliths.
You know how to do it my man.

 

[User211]

Have you ruled out trying some huge tube amps Gary?

 

[GaryG]

Have you ruled out trying some huge tube amps Gary?

I have not ruled big tube amps out. perhaps some big VTLs for example. Also I have significant interest in a big Pass Labs like the X-1000.5 or possibly the 600's.

 

[User211]

I think some VTLs could be very good indeed however I don't think I have heard them drive Logans.

 

[amey01]

I think some VTLs could be very good indeed however I don't think I have heard them drive Logans.

I've never heard VTLs drive 'Logans. Interesting.

Love the amps though - most recently heard them with a pair of Audio Physic Virgo. Awesome!!

 

[RUR]

I think some VTLs could be very good indeed however I don't think I have heard them drive Logans.

I've never heard VTLs drive 'Logans. Interesting.

Love the amps though - most recently heard them with a pair of Audio Physic Virgo. Awesome!!

I briefly ran a pair of MB450 Sig's (prior model, pre auto-biasing), using the best NOS tubes money can buy, on my Summits, and the top end left a lot to be desired IMO. Maybe the MkII models would perform better.

 

[User211]

Fantastic with Focals Adam - never heard them sound so realistic.

Ken's report with Logans not encouraging.

 

[RUR]

Ken's report with Logans not encouraging.

And not just Logans, Justin..... We tried them on a friend's big Soundlabs, and they sounded godawful. OTOH after long storage, I sold them on a few months back and the new owner, using unknown speakers, thinks they're terrific.

 

[User211]

The Justin Historic Audiophile Photographic Archive reveals what I was listening to to be VTL MB450 x 2 into Focal Scala Utopia in the year 2010. It really worked well IMHO. Not the best Focals, and definitely not into Naim Statement / Grand Utopia territory. But nonetheless not bad at all.

 

[GaryG]

Have you ruled out trying some huge tube amps Gary?

Justin, good post. This pushed me to call VTL to find out where I could hear the Siegfied Series II's. It turns out to be Brian Berdan at the Audio Element in Pasadena, CA. I bought my Sasha's from Brian. So we set an appointment for Thursday afternoon (May 7th) for me to go over and listen.

Gary

 

[Hocky]

The idea of doing a demo of amps at someone else's facility with their speakers is laughable. You couldn't possibly determine anything about the amplifiers capabilities because you don't know the room, the speakers, or anything associated with it. Anything you hear could or could not be related to anything else in the chain (and probably is). The best determination you could make is yep, they amplify music.

 

[GaryG]

The idea... is laughable.

Good Grief!!!

Hocky, I take umbrage at the tone of your post. Over the years I have read many of your fine post that make a contribution to this forum. This is not one of those. I probably agree with your premise, but this visit is simply a starting point. The price point for these amps is 3 times higher than the amps I'm currently meticulously testing in Las Vegas. At this first visit I will probably have some coffee, Socialize with Brian and listen to some fine music. We will dance around some items and I will attempt to determine best price. If everything looks positive we will discuss a home audition. At this point I will view your post as if you were simply "having a bad hair day".

Gary

 

[User211]

I think sometimes people forget or don't consider just how much experience other people have.

It maybe that Ken is right but until you experiment you won't actually know for yourself. The usual ML pairing we get over here is ARC but that is probably the distributor at work more than anything I suspect.

I personally liked CLX with Jadis JA200s and an all ARC front end. Same distributor using something a bit different.

Be interesting to see what you think anyway Gary I give you no promise it will ultimately work well.

 

[GaryG]

When I read Kens comments on the poor highs performance of the 450's I raised my eyebrows but I did not stop. The newer sig series II's have received great reviews. So I will be focused on the highs.

Gary

 

[RUR]

When I read Kens comments on the poor highs performance of the 450's I raised my eyebrows but I did not stop. The newer sig series II's have received great reviews. So I will be focused on the highs.

Gary

What's odd is that Gayle used the same gen Seigfrieds or Wotans or whatever their megawatt amps were then to drive Statements at shows, receiving high praise. I would've suspected my amps, but I had VTL, who are local, go thru the damn things before I turned 'em on. It's a puzzlement.