Need Advice on Theos Purchase and Pre/Pro!

[JLasher22443]

So it has been forever since I have posted here and after a few days of catching up on my reading, I really missed this place.

Since my last stay here I have added a lot of goodies to my setup and now I'm ready to add more, but more serious equipment.

Currently I have:

Martin Logans:

F: Clarity's
C: Cinema i
R: Script i
S: Depth i

Equipment:

Pre/Pro: Sony DA4400ES
Amp: Rotel RMB 1095
Projector: Sony VPL-VW40
Denon DBP-1611UD
New Xbox Slim
Apple Mac Mini
DTV HDDVR
All on Panamax M5400EX

Now with that said I just heard the Theos and fell in love. I was there to look into upgrading my Pre/Pro from the Sony, and after hearing the Theos they are a must buy now.

So my big question is, if I plan to add the Theos here in the next few months, which Pre/Pro would be best to add to my system?

Currently I am looking at the Denon AVR-4810CI, Denon AVR-4311CI, or the Marantz SR7005. My budget for Pre/Pro is around $3K.

The room is 20' x 20' and has vaulted ceilings. There are 6 windows and two doors, both with glass, which all play hell on my system. My distance currently away from front speakers is about 10 feet.

I'm really considering redoing my entire room and having the Clarity's be used as L & R Surround Speakers in my room after purchasing the Theos speakers. But to do this I will need to relocate my entire setup to another room in the house that is larger and longer. This would take some time and effort on my part; hence why I haven't done it. Lazy!

So for now I'm only doing 5.1 but plan to step up to 7.1. The theatre is solely used for watching movies, DTV, and playing video games.

Please can someone point me in the right direction before I blow money on a Pre/Pro that will not work well with the Theos in say 3 months?

Thanks and this place still rocks!

 

[jmschnur]

I have the integra 80.2 . Audyssey XT32 has made a big difference in my listening room. The current version is 80.3.

The denon top of the line avr can also be used as a pre/pro and has xt 32 as well.

I have ml Vantages, stage, and a descent I with a second sub jl 112 and NHT dipole surrounds with Bryston stereo amps and Outlaw 7500 for the surrounds and center in a 14x16 room. Audyssey xt 32 did a fine job integrating these all.

 

[roberto]

Hola. All the goods on our beloved hobby are a matter of liking. What I do like, not necessary you must like it too. But, in general, the brands that you mention, like Marantz or Denon are great sounding brands and offer a lot of connection facilities. Just buy the model that offers a preamp outputs, so this will allow you to use different amplifiers to drive your new Theos. You are in the right track. My inicial vote is for Marantz, but this is because I like the look and sound quality. I can not say that the Denon sound is bad. Onkyo is other brand that you could take in consideration. Just keep in mind that ML will show the quality of your components, no matter, brand or model. I vote for quality than quantity, regarding power amplifiers. The new ML design allow us to use a wide variety of devices (amplifiers) that will drive the Theos very nice. Another tip: trust your ears!!! Buy what you liked most, not what I am tellling to buy. What I am telling is my liking, ok? At that price range, you can't go wrong. Visit your dealer several times, and bring with you, the music that usually you are always listening. If you are thinking more in HT, also you can't go wrong. Buy always the latest tech available. In two years, that one is obsolete. It happened to me, and all of us! Read the pro and the contra about what you are buying, and listen if that bothers you. I wish you a very happy listening!

 

[edwinr]

Also consider the Anthem range of receivers. They have a sophisticated room correction program that requires the use of a notebook computer. I haven't heard these receivers, but the reviews seem positive. Regarding the Marantz suggestion, I agree the new models seem to be excellent value.

However, I note that you have a Rotel 5 channel power amp. I presume you are using the Sony receiver as processor only. Are you going to sell the Rotel as well? If not, why not consider a Rotel processor to match the Rotel power amp? I suggest such a combination would give most receivers a run for their money.

The Theos speakers will be a huge upgrade on the Claritys. I would carefully consider the need to shift rooms, though. You may find the new room is not as good as the one you are using right now. Better the devil you know.

Maybe you could sell the Claritys. The extra $$$ would be nice this time of year.

 

[JLasher22443]

Thanks everyone for the advice thus far. I'm diligently researching all of my options right now so all advice will be considered.

edminr, to answer a few questions that you stated above:

I will be Keeping the Clarity's for sure, even if they move to another room for 2.1. They are my first Martin Logan's and it would be like giving up my first true love. LOL

I researched Rotel, but with all of my online and in person experience, the Rotel Pre/Pro is lacking some key things I would like to have in my HT. My biggest concern for this Pre/Pro is video prossessing with great sound.

Now after reading jmschnur's response and researching it, I am now considering the Integra 80.3.

So I think I have narrowed it down to the Denon AVR-4810CI or the Integra 80.3 for now, still unsure. I'm going to give Overture a call and see if I can schedule a demo with them of a few items with the Theos in mind. Best Buy had the Theos on the Marantz SR7005 and it blew me away, but we only listened to music from an iPod no Bluray.

Keep the advice coming it is appreciated.

 

[JLasher22443]

Ok so I hit a small but good bump in the road towards upgrading my Pre/Pro.

Yesterday while sitting at work, on my birthday, wishing I was somewhere else, I did some research in regards to Martin Logan Speakers and where the closet's Reserve Dealer was located near Washington DC. After a quick search I located IQ Home Entertainment located in Fairfax, VA. So, I gave them a call to see what their showroom was like and what was on display for me to listen to and if they would be able to give me a demo on a few Pre/Pros and ML's? They said of course and to come on down. So without skipping a beat I left work, picked up the wife, and headed to Fairfax.

So we headed down with only one plan in mind, hearing the Theos again and trying some different Pre/Pros on them. My plan was to hear the Integra 80.3 and the Denon's in the same room with the same speakers to see which option would be best for us in our HT. Well we didn't stick to the plan.

When we arrived Scott introduced himself and we discussed what exactly we were looking for and what we currently had in our HT. He informed me that they did not have any Theos in the store, guess I should have asked before I left DC, but instead they had the Montis, Ethos, and the ElectroMotion ESL on the floor for Demo. This was ok since we hadn’t heard either of the 3 yet.

So Scott the salesman walked away to get some music while my wife and I sat down in front of the Ethos which were already playing in the store. They sounded great and I was already comparing them to the Theos in my head and debating if I should be buying these instead of the Theos. Original plan already being diverted from, this was not good.

Then Scott came back and escorted us into one of their listening rooms where the Montis Speakers were set up. At first glance I was like a kid who had just been taken into a Toys R Us for the first time, a huge smile from ear to ear and extremely excited.

Scott then starts moving the Montis speakers around, plugging them in, and placing the chair in the center of the room as to indicate our listening distance per our discussion.

And then it started, full abort from the original mission. Those Montis speakers began to play and the sound was unbelievable. My wife and I sat there for about 15 minutes in shock. The crisp sound that came from those speakers was to die for and was now my main mission in life, must have these in my house.

So after some more discussing and deciding that the front speakers would be the largest improvement for our system and not the Pre/Pro and the Theos right now. We bought the Montis Pair instead.

They should be drop shipped to the house by Friday. Now I just need to figure out what Processor is best for the Montis speakers and my HT. After talking yesterday with Scott at IQ I'm leaning a lot more towards waiting for about 6 months to see what comes out. But the Integra is beginning to become my favorite I think.

So please keep the suggestions coming and I’ll keep researching them. I’m really glad I found IQ Home Entertainment in Fairfax and don’t have to drive out to Overture any more.

 

[jmschnur]

Let us know how you like the montis. I have a set of Vantages and have been thinking of upgrading and putting the Vantages in a newly redone room downstairs.

I am interested in how long the break in time is as well.

How did you like the store . I have not visited it yet. I live in Burke .

Joel

 

[JLasher22443]

The store and staff were both great! They really let you demo the equipment how you see fit. They would throw on a CD for us and leave the room and wait outside for how ever long you needed. Unlike some other places where they stay in the room and try to explain what it is you are hearing from the equipment. Then once we were done they would set up something else for us. The salesman Scott was an awesome host and was very knowledgeable on the equipment. I highly recommend making a stop.

As for the burn in time I'm curious myself? Also I'm really thinking that I'm going to have redo my entire room, which is well over due, to accommodate for these new speakers. That means mounting my projector to the ceiling and relocating all equipment up front while pushing the seating back from the screen. Should be fun.

 

[JLasher22443]

Not to many suggestions for any other brands? I guess Integra and Denon are going to be my best options from the advice I've recieved so far. So I think for price, I'm going to go with the Integra 80.3 over the Denon AVR-4810CI. I like that the Integra is THX certified which I think will work well with the Rotel which is THX certified as well.

Now for an update on my Montis and HT.

The Montis speakers came in yesterday and I've already got them temped up in my HT.

Here they are compared to the Clarity's.

Also I've made some changes in the room and plan to do many more this weekend when I have more time. All equipment and wiring has moved up front and I plan to ceiling mount the Sony Projector as well. This will allow for me to move the seating back about 5 feet.

Before:

Beginning of Move all wires are temp and not organized yet.

The Montis require a 72 Hour burn in period at 90db or what they call Moderate Listening. I have also moved the Depth i out from the wall and the Montis are a little over 3 feet away from the back wall. My plan is to black out all windows, relocate some of the Acoustical Panels, and relocate the projector to the ceiling.

So far the Montis sound unbelievable in my room. Last night I listened to Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City Bluray and played a few online games on the Xbox.

Even with it not turned up at all, the boom from these speakers and the Depth i together is priceless. The crispness when listening to Dave and Tim was awesome as well.

My plan tonight is to take out the db meter and see exactly what level on the Pre/pro is 90db listening and watch some more of Dave and Tim. That Bluray is kind of my measuring point for the room. Every time I make a change I play that disc to see the difference.

 

[jmschnur]

How do yyou plan to break them in and here will you be. 90db is loud.

 

[JLasher22443]

How do yyou plan to break them in and here will you be. 90db is loud.

I'm just planning to watch a lot of movies and listen to music at a reasonable level. The owners manual said 90db listening level for 72 hours.

I used to push my Clarity's to 110db on a db meter at my sitting area when watching normal TV. With Blyray's and good action packed movies I'm sure it was higher. Although I do work in a computer room all day so my hearing isn't the greatest. LOL Maybe that's why my wife always complains about how high the volume is?

I'm a rookie when it comes to this so if you have any suggestions on how to break them in properly I'm all ears? Thanks in advance!

 

[tsv_1]

I'm just planning to watch a lot of movies and listen to music at a reasonable level. The owners manual said 90db listening level for 72 hours.

I used to push my Clarity's to 110db on a db meter at my sitting area when watching normal TV. With Blyray's and good action packed movies I'm sure it was higher. Although I do work in a computer room all day so my hearing isn't the greatest. LOL Maybe that's why my wife always complains about how high the volume is?

I'm a rookie when it comes to this so if you have any suggestions on how to break them in properly I'm all ears? Thanks in advance!

Many suggest white noise (or equiv like a detuned radio or TV tuner) is the best break-in signal, though that might get just a little taxing if your in the room for any more than 72 seconds (much less, days) at 90dB. I think your plan to just watch/listen a lot is a very good alternative

 

[JLasher22443]

Many suggest white noise (or equiv like a detuned radio or TV tuner) is the best break-in signal, though that might get just a little taxing if your in the room for any more than 72 seconds (much less, days) at 90dB. I think your plan to just watch/listen a lot is a very good alternative

Thanks! After reading more here on the site today I did see a post where some one stated they left them on all day long while at work. This sounds like a great idea. My wife and I are gone for some time during the day so I'll turn them on and let my two dogs enjoy them instead. But I don't think I'll leave them at 90db for the entire day. If I did that they couldn't guard the house very effectively then. LOL

So should I keep track of the hours of listening and once past 72 hours it's safe to say I can turn it up a bit?

 

[tsv_1]

So should I keep track of the hours of listening and once past 72 hours it's safe to say I can turn it up a bit?

Break-in is a gradual process and, in the end, it's really all about how you perceive the sound quality to have improved over time. When I first received the speakers I have now, I was prepared for a long arduous break-in period... but to my very happy relief, they sounded amazing literally right out of the box... and they've only matured (for the better) over time. That said, your milage may vary (ymmv) So, while I wouldn't use 72 hours as a hard threshold for determining your listening habits, I do suspect you will perceive some improvment over time, and perhaps noticeable improvement in just 72 hours.

Cheers and keep us posted on your impressions.

 

[cstory]

Since there was a mention about lack of alternatives for the Pre-Pro I'll chime in. Roberto mentioned Marantz, and I have the AV-8003, which I think is really excellent. The newer version, the AV-7005 is very good as well.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-av7005-surround-processor-and-mm7055-amplifier

Congrats on the new speakers.

Chuck

 

[jmschnur]

Stereophile test cd 3 has a break in track . You might look on the net and see if it can be downloaded.

 

[jmschnur]

S o how does it sound?

 

[JordanD]

Wow congrats on the Montis! I took a friend to a local shop last weekend and he is highly interested in the Montis now as well!

 

[JLasher22443]

Well I did some major work and reorganizing in my HT room this weekend and so far I'm ecstatic over the change. The speakers sound unbelievably great! They make my Clarity's sound like $hit. I'm not sure if the room sounds better due to the new speakers, moving the listening area back 4 feet, or taking the Depth i out of the corner another 2 feet. Either way the change is great but boy was it a pain in the A$$ to do.

So my brother-in-law and I tackled the challenge of rearranging the room on Friday and hopes to have it completed by at least the beginning of the football games on Sunday. Well we met the deadline and got it up and working 20 minutes before kick-off.

All I have left to do now is black out all of the windows, tear down all drapes, clean up the cabling, and finish my drywall patching and painting. But for now the room looks and sounds great to me. My wife even said that with the projector being moved forward 3 feet closer to the screen that it really improved the picture quality as well.

So this is the room prior to our destruction:

Then we messed it up:

This is where we started running into some issues with getting the power and HDMI up to the 18 foot high ceiling. Not to mention the builder used 2" x 10"s for the roof trusses and there was no chase at the peak. All he did was add a 2" x 10" down the center for the trusses to screw into at the peak and for the drywall to screw too. Which is also the stud I used for mounting the fan box too. But feeding the cables in the peak of the room was not easy. So I decided to build a false beam down the center of the room for the wires to chase through like a cable raceway kind of. At the peak of the room it was a 6" piece of drywall so I used a 1" x 8" piece of wood to nail up to the ceiling. This created about an 1 1/2" space of clearance between the wood and the drywall. So then the wires slid right through.

A picture from before with the cracks I created while using the drywall saw. The whole piece of drywall just shook when I started sawing out the fan box.

 

[JLasher22443]

Then since they don't make an 8' long ceiling fan extension rod, I decided to use 1" Plumbing rigid pipe which already comes black which will help with painting. Screwed that into a floor flange which mounted on the ceiling. On the bottom I knocked out another fan box to 1" and used locknuts and a plastic bushing to connect it. Then the projector mount mounted directly to that as shown below. All will be painted black when done.

Then we did a major cleaning and patching of drywall to get us to where we are now. So for now we are up and running but still have a lot more to do to be complete. Here are some other photos shown as of now.

But one thing I can say is that these new Montis Speakers are unbelievable!