Need advice CLX VS Spires

[fusion2007]

Im thinking of upgrading to the CLX from the Spires. I have had the spires for awhile and love them, but how much better are the CLX compared to them, is it like going to a whole new world when upgrading? Any advice and information is much appreciated.

 

[roberto]

Hola. Each ML model has its own firm. If you like the bass of your Spires, then you will need a couple of subs along the CLXs. And also, the subs must matches the CLX performance.

My room is quite small, so I use only one BF-210 with the special downloaded software for the CLX model for the crossover point. Making a comparison, just read this review: http://www.tonepublications.com/magazine/toneaudio-magazine-issue-19/

The presentation for the world of the CLX model was for the first time, at the Munich Audio Show in 2008. At the end, two finalists where standing, the CLXs and the Grand Utopia Focal, JM Labs made in France. These Grand Utopia speakers have a retail price in the US for $ 180.000.00/pair. For the first time, and unanimous, the 11 judges nominated the CLXs as the winners of the best sound of the show. This tells something regarding them.

The total harmonic texture of the instruments, the size, the detail, the air between the instruments, the stage, the effortless when playing difficult passages of the music, the vocals, the quality of playing all type of music, the presence, the coherence, the fun to listen to the music is breath taking. I do love mines that much.

I have customers with large rooms or mid size rooms and at any room, the music shines. And the music makes a bridge between Earth and Heaven. If you can get a pair, or before making the purchase, listen to them carefully. If you find yourself discovering new things at your most known tracks, its because they have this possibility. Quality has no regret! Do it!. Happy listening.

 

[fusion2007]

Thanks for help Roberto, its been a difficult decision, I'm going to listen to them this weekend. If there as amazing as you say, Im sold!! Im not worried about bass, I have 2 subwoofers from svs so I'm good there. I'll take a few of my own tracks with me to listen to. My room is 20 by 20, that should be good enough for the CLX?
I can't believe there that good way better then the spire makes me wonder what have i been missing, that says a lot when compared with 180k speakers. the only thing to figure out is how much space is needed around them.

 

[MPS]

You'll do fine with CLX, just remember that 1,5m or 5' (?) to front wall or maybe more if you can.

 

[twich54]

while a square room is not ideal, you'll be Ok. Given that they are approx three times the price of the Spire's I'm surprised that you wouldn't think of them being a better speaker……… three times better ………... no.

 

[roberto]

No Dave. They are not three times better. Perhaps more :ROFL: The questions here are. Can you tell the differences? Do you listen to the music? or the musician(s) playing for you? I have being telling here, that the sound it is a matter of liking, just like food. There are a lot of food that I do not like at all, like capers or giblets. I had tried them all the possible ways, and the truth is, their flavors are not for me. And some of you might love them, and think how fool I am.

We have the same thing regarding the electronics and speakers. I had read here, that some of you, do not like the sound of the new stat panel of Martin Logan and you prefer the old panel technology versus the new. And you have the right too. Your ears talk. Mines too. And what I do like, not necessary must be your liking or likewise.

To my ears and liking, the CLXs is an outstanding product, and are a huge step forward than their processor the CLS. The coherence, the dynamics, the ability to play difficult passages easy, the stage, the body of the musical instrument presentation, the harmonic texture, the quality of the parts inside them, there are a lot of gadgets and details that were taking to bring this product out.

I have all kind of rooms here were they are, large, medium side and small like mine. And in my room, I do love what I get and have. The speakers truly disappear, giving me only a huge stage where I can point each musician playing. I do not like too much the big symphonic orchestras, not in vinyl or digital. But camera music and smaller are a fine jewel to listen to...happy listening!

 

[edwinr]

Roberto, I have listened to the CLXs a number of times, but not in my home. I am wondering if a sub is essential - I'm really surprised at how low the CLX goes. If it was me, rather than using a cheaper sub and risking coloring the CLX sound, I would buy the CLX sans subwoofer, and save my pennies until I could afford one of the high-end Martin Logan subs.

 

[roberto]

Ed, I could live with the bass performance of them...but, sometimes I want to feel a deeper note bass, and here is where they do need a sub. Do not get me wrong.

I have my volume level of the sub (O'clock) circa 10 to 11. Too much bass energy spoils the stage to my ears and liking. I was a bass player when I had my band, long time ago...late 60's. One thing that these beasts offer easy, is the quality bass, and you can tell all the notes, if you are a musician. The F and F# is well defined. This does not happens in all speakers. Resolution is the clue too.

As all know, my room is not too big. They are about 3.5m away from my golden seating position. Their behind wall is about 1.2m. We all know that the back wall is a mirror, and has a little time delay, giving you stage. Believe me, I like a lot what I do listen. I do not need more room. I have customers with outstanding electronics, with big rooms, and my system sounds as good as them...I do not envy anything of their sound quality and mine, if you make a comparison. In bigger rooms, they sound nice too.

You must think that the CLXs are designed with the need of subs. To have the best of them, the subs offers tons of clarity with a breath taking stage. It opens up. But here, we must put a lot of attention. Quantity bass energy is not what we want. What we want is quality!!! Not visceral moving bass. If you listen to a live instruments, without any amplification, is what I try to emulate with my set up. Again, this is a matter of liking.

Because of my work, I listen to a many different systems and speakers. And when I come home and listen to mine, I thank God for it. I am very satisfied with sound. Happy listening!

 

[fusion2007]

You'll do fine with CLX, just remember that 1,5m or 5' (?) to front wall or maybe more if you can.

hmm you mean meters? or feet? i can probably getaway with 1 meter maybe a bit more. but if its less, it won't hurt it too much right? i am in a process in building a room dedicated to music listening. ill make sure to keep it within that spectrum of space. thanks

while a square room is not ideal, you'll be Ok. Given that they are approx three times the price of the Spire's I'm surprised that you wouldn't think of them being a better speaker……… three times better ………... no.

damn lol. I was hoping for 3x better atleast. Roberto has made me feel like I'm missing a lot I'm really looking forward to the CLX. I am the kind of person that really analysis all the music and carefully listens for all the notes in the music. Each time I listen I want it to feel like artist is right there in front of me.
What size room would you recommend? I'm building a room just for listening 16 x 20 x 8 or 10ft high. what do you think?

No Dave. They are not three times better. Perhaps more :ROFL: The questions here are. Can you tell the differences? Do you listen to the music? or the musician(s) playing for you? I have being telling here, that the sound it is a matter of liking, just like food. There are a lot of food that I do not like at all, like capers or giblets. I had tried them all the possible ways, and the truth is, their flavors are not for me. And some of you might love them, and think how fool I am.

We have the same thing regarding the electronics and speakers. I had read here, that some of you, do not like the sound of the new stat panel of Martin Logan and you prefer the old panel technology versus the new. And you have the right too. Your ears talk. Mines too. And what I do like, not necessary must be your liking or likewise.



To my ears and liking, the CLXs is an outstanding product, and are a huge step forward than their processor the CLS. The coherence, the dynamics, the ability to play difficult passages easy, the stage, the body of the musical instrument presentation, the harmonic texture, the quality of the parts inside them, there are a lot of gadgets and details that were taking to bring this product out.

I have all kind of rooms here were they are, large, medium side and small like mine. And in my room, I do love what I get and have. The speakers truly disappear, giving me only a huge stage where I can point each musician playing. I do not like too much the big symphonic orchestras, not in vinyl or digital. But camera music and smaller are a fine jewel to listen to...happy listening!

Hey Roberto I really appreciate your advice and knowledge, tell me something. I mostly listen to modern European electronic/dance music along with some orchestra. Most of the European music i listen to highly detailed. I'm slowing upgrading my equipment and I'm hearing MUCH MORE detailed from higher end cables and and a change to tube amps. Do you think I will still be blown away by the CLX? are highs..details mids that amazing?

Roberto, I have listened to the CLXs a number of times, but not in my home. I am wondering if a sub is essential - I'm really surprised at how low the CLX goes. If it was me, rather than using a cheaper sub and risking coloring the CLX sound, I would buy the CLX sans subwoofer, and save my pennies until I could afford one of the high-end Martin Logan subs.

As much as I love martin Logan, if you can't afford the ml subs. I use SVS pb13 ultra subs, they are amazing, check them out.

 

[roberto]

Hola. About electronic music. The synthesizer is an electronic instrument. How do I know how it sounds?, if the medias where it is played, always are different, with harmonic textures that I do not know exactly how it is the right sound? It is an average type of sound. Part of the distortions on these kind of media player amplifiers (Messa, Fender, Vox, Yamaha, Marshall, etc) belongs to it, and these amps provides enough SPL, but I do not know the size, harmonic texture, the right sound, and what the musician(s) are setting all the possibilities for the overall sound that he is searching. As an example: Chick Corea. This wonderful musician uses the moog and synthesizer in most of his recordings. Also, he plays usually a Steinway Piano. With the piano, I can tell, but with the electronic instruments, I can not.

What I can tell is if I liked or not. If the sound coming from my speakers is clean an clear, until I listen to the drummer cymbals, or the bass player (double bass) or any other acoustic instrument(s), so, here I really get a truly reference. With the Electronic instruments, I have an idea, but it is so difficult to say, at least in my case. I do not use any electronic music for evaluation of my sound. Electric or Electronic instruments are too difficult for me.

If I find myself tapping with my feet, getting goose bumps, and my ears wide open, with my hearing sense there, with the musician(s), means that I am right and enjoying the music that much. And this do not happens to me in every system that I listen, too.

The good thing is that you have your taste in the music, and if you like what you are listening, and your body and mind is reacting positively to that, then you are in the right track. My best advise is: Trust your ears, not in specs! Happy listening!

 

[fusion2007]

Hola. About electronic music. The synthesizer is an electronic instrument. How do I know how it sounds?, if the medias where it is played, always are different, with harmonic textures that I do not know exactly how it is the right sound? It is an average type of sound. Part of the distortions on these kind of media player amplifiers (Messa, Fender, Vox, Yamaha, Marshall, etc) belongs to it, and these amps provides enough SPL, but I do not know the size, harmonic texture, the right sound, and what the musician(s) are setting all the possibilities for the overall sound that he is searching. As an example: Chick Corea. This wonderful musician uses the moog and synthesizer in most of his recordings. Also, he plays usually a Steinway Piano. With the piano, I can tell, but with the electronic instruments, I can not.

What I can tell is if I liked or not. If the sound coming from my speakers is clean an clear, until I listen to the drummer cymbals, or the bass player (double bass) or any other acoustic instrument(s), so, here I really get a truly reference. With the Electronic instruments, I have an idea, but it is so difficult to say, at least in my case. I do not use any electronic music for evaluation of my sound. Electric or Electronic instruments are too difficult for me.

If I find myself tapping with my feet, getting goose bumps, and my ears wide open, with my hearing sense there, with the musician(s), means that I am right and enjoying the music that much. And this do not happens to me in every system that I listen, too.

The good thing is that you have your taste in the music, and if you like what you are listening, and your body and mind is reacting positively to that, then you are in the right track. My best advise is: Trust your ears, not in specs! Happy listening!

I understand what your saying. Some of it is synthesized but most of the music i have is not actually. its recordered with real instruments. the beat of the music is dance/rb style. I have heard the artists live so that should be a big help
thanks

 

[roberto]

That's enough...your ears and feelings will guide you at the right track way. Happy listening!

 

[twich54]

fus, to answer your question about room size…………….16' wide is fine for the CLX, if possible stretch the length beyond 20' (24' - 26') if possible, 10' ceilings perfect.

 

[Bernard]

Fusion, if you're in the process of designing a dedicated music room, I suggest you shoot a PM to Jim Smith, who occasionally posts on this forum, and who does this for a living; he's already done work for some people here. Or, at least buy his book, "Get Better Sound"; it has useful info on room design. Google it; his site should have contact info for him, just in case he does not respond to a PM.

 

[GaryG]

Fusion, Your SVS pb13's will work fine with the CLX's. Even in your 20'x20' room you will get great sound. As you can see my friend Roberto is over the top in love with the CLX and he is pretty close to the truth as I see it. I want my speakers to sound like the musicians are in the room. I have never heard a pair of speakers with subs mimic a piano (range 27 Hz to approx. 4500 Hz) like the CLX. Guitars are fantastic etc. I have an album by Melody Gardot, for example, with her version of "Over the Rainbow". It starts off with birds in the jungle or forest. When a bird takes flight, the sound is so good you think you can see it, feel it, reach out and touch it. When you audition them, make sure you listen to a representative sample of your music and enjoy. And of course remember It's your ears and your wallet and YMMV.

Gary

 

[fusion2007]

THESE ARE ACTUALLY CLX ART SPEAKERS!!! sorry for the confusion

fus, to answer your question about room size…………….16' wide is fine for the CLX, if possible stretch the length beyond 20' (24' - 26') if possible, 10' ceilings perfect.

thanks for the advice. my ceiling will be 10feat already actually. but I'm kinda of stuck on the length of the room because of the support beam, that drops the ceiling down to 9ft. I wish I could increase it but It would lower the ceiling and from what I've been reading that will hurt a lot.

Fusion, if you're in the process of designing a dedicated music room, I suggest you shoot a PM to Jim Smith, who occasionally posts on this forum, and who does this for a living; he's already done work for some people here. Or, at least buy his book, "Get Better Sound"; it has useful info on room design. Google it; his site should have contact info for him, just in case he does not respond to a PM.

Thank you! I will do that.

Fusion, Your SVS pb13's will work fine with the CLX's. Even in your 20'x20' room you will get great sound. As you can see my friend Roberto is over the top in love with the CLX and he is pretty close to the truth as I see it. I want my speakers to sound like the musicians are in the room. I have never heard a pair of speakers with subs mimic a piano (range 27 Hz to approx. 4500 Hz) like the CLX. Guitars are fantastic etc. I have an album by Melody Gardot, for example, with her version of "Over the Rainbow". It starts off with birds in the jungle or forest. When a bird takes flight, the sound is so good you think you can see it, feel it, reach out and touch it. When you audition them, make sure you listen to a representative sample of your music and enjoy. And of course remember It's your ears and your wallet and YMMV.

Gary

wow!! that is one hell of the discription. I heard the speakers they sound awesome, not even broken in yet. AND ACTUALLY THEY ARE CLX ART!! is that even closer to the truth? haha.Im not sure what the differences are but I am super excited to get them delivered I hope my silver 88 tube amps can drive these, they are 90watts a channel, I'm hoping thats enough what do you guys think?

 

[InterMechanico]

I think that you should try the CLX's with the electronics you have, noting any piece that may be a weak link in the chain, so to speak. Give them a chance and hear for yourself if your amps are capable enough. If you like to listen to your music at very high volume, you will see some benefit from a pair of higher power amps. Change one thing at a time and take ample time to examine the differences. Upgrading is fun, without a doubt, but a wholesale change out of your gear will likely result in some wasted money.

I'm very excited for you. Enjoy those Speaks.

 

[Brad225]

Originally Posted by twich54
fus, to answer your question about room size…………….16' wide is fine for the CLX, if possible stretch the length beyond 20' (24' - 26') if possible, 10' ceilings perfect

Fusion2007
thanks for the advice. my ceiling will be 10 feet already actually. but I'm kinda of stuck on the length of the room because of the support beam, that drops the ceiling down to 9ft. I wish I could increase it but It would lower the ceiling and from what I've been reading that will hurt a lot.

How much longer could you make your room if part of it had a 9' ceiling? The 4"-6' of extra room length twich spoke of would make more difference than having the ceiling at 9' for that small an amount.

I would suggest having the lower ceiling at the end where the speakers are. You are going to want them to be 5' off the wall anyway so 1' less height should not be an issue. You have much more to gain than loose.

Even if it had to be at the listening end, again you are going to be sitting well off the back wall.

 

[patsuh]

Hi there,
As Roberto told you, clxs are a very different animal, the scale, zize, atonishing speed, makes most loudspeakers out there constipated but their resolution are their biggest enemy, you will clearly hear everything in your recordings, cables and equipments.
Then, be prepair to try to get their best sound to listen everything out there.
Don't think that needs power they do but most what they need is quality.
A excellent system for them will be:

Hi-Res Music Player with 1TB HDD - Sony
Transparent reference interconnects
Rogers integrated amplifier
Ml bf210 sub
Transparent reference loudspeakers cables
Vpi scout signature with aida cartridge
Transparent reference isolator filter

Very easy to set up

Clxs are my favorites over anything.
Regards
Suheil

 

[fusion2007]

I think that you should try the CLX's with the electronics you have, noting any piece that may be a weak link in the chain, so to speak. Give them a chance and hear for yourself if your amps are capable enough. If you like to listen to your music at very high volume, you will see some benefit from a pair of higher power amps. Change one thing at a time and take ample time to examine the differences. Upgrading is fun, without a doubt, but a wholesale change out of your gear will likely result in some wasted money.

I'm very excited for you. Enjoy those Speaks.

I appreciate that, thats good honest advice.thanks I don't think i need to upgrade. I hardly go above 50% of what my amps can do now. there 90watts a channel and I never have had to crank them to 50%. They get crazy loud at around 35-45%. I just bought them so there brand spankin new too.
I am really excited to hear them on my own setup. they didn't sound that great in the store since they were on poor equipment, they sounded good, but they will be much better on audiophile grade equipment.

Originally Posted by twich54
fus, to answer your question about room size…………….16' wide is fine for the CLX, if possible stretch the length beyond 20' (24' - 26') if possible, 10' ceilings perfect

Fusion2007
thanks for the advice. my ceiling will be 10 feet already actually. but I'm kinda of stuck on the length of the room because of the support beam, that drops the ceiling down to 9ft. I wish I could increase it but It would lower the ceiling and from what I've been reading that will hurt a lot.

How much longer could you make your room if part of it had a 9' ceiling? The 4"-6' of extra room length twich spoke of would make more difference than having the ceiling at 9' for that small an amount.

I would suggest having the lower ceiling at the end where the speakers are. You are going to want them to be 5' off the wall anyway so 1' less height should not be an issue. You have much more to gain than loose.

Even if it had to be at the listening end, again you are going to be sitting well off the back wall.

I will definitely do 10ft ceilings. The room is 20-22 feet wide and 16ft long. i was thinking for the speakers to be on the 20-22ft wall side,but you guys say its better to be on the 16ft wall side?. will it make that big of a difference?

Hi there,
As Roberto told you, clxs are a very different animal, the scale, zize, atonishing speed, makes most loudspeakers out there constipated but their resolution are their biggest enemy, you will clearly hear everything in your recordings, cables and equipments.
Then, be prepair to try to get their best sound to listen everything out there.
Don't think that needs power they do but most what they need is quality.
A excellent system for them will be:

Hi-Res Music Player with 1TB HDD - Sony
Transparent reference interconnects
Rogers integrated amplifier
Ml bf210 sub
Transparent reference loudspeakers cables
Vpi scout signature with aida cartridge
Transparent reference isolator filter

Very easy to set up

Clxs are my favorites over anything.
Regards
Suheil

sounds like I'm in for a scavenger hunt to find the best for the CLX arts. haha.I appreciate the tips. I am curious for when I get them delivered, what have i been missing. these are supposedly the best of the best. I guess I'm in for a big surprise.