ML Summit X tweak for warmer tonal balance?

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Auto,

So I assume you are of the "can't measure it, doesn't exist" frame of mind.

Not much to say. That horse is truly dead.

GG

 

[Tosh]

Auto....FWIW, you should try purchasing some heavy gauge Monster Cable or equivalent, "dumb-bell" cross-section, with wide spacer between the cores.

Unless you particularly require 3-5m lengths, cut the cables to minimal length (say, just over 2 metres?). This will confer the advantages of low capacitance, low inductance and low resistance engineered into far more expensive cables but without the financial pain.

The wide space between the cores makes for higher inductance.

This is one of the better tests (since NP's) I've read about speaker cable:
DIY Cable Face-off Conclusion

edited to say: In the audioholics test, it's a pity he didn't construct his CAT5 cables by separating out the twisted pairs into plus and minus. I think he would have gotten even better (lower) inductance figures (but worse capacitance...)

 

[autoformer]

No, don't get me wrong, Gordon. All I'm saying is that a lot of people who have formal training and years of professional experience as electrical engineers don't believe. Roger Russell's opinion, for example, is hard to ignore. I personally believe wire makes a difference simply because I can hear it with my own ears. My wife, who is also a keen music enthusiast, is astonished at the difference the Transparent Music Wave has made in our system.

Of course, the Transparent cable isn't just wire. The passive electronics in that little inline box are up to something. What it's doing in technical terms, I can't say. All I know is it sounds better to me!

It seems to me that various combinations of resistance, capacitance and inductance, along with the specific characteristics of particular amplifiers and speakers is where the explanation lies. The wire has to be viewed in the context of the components it's connected to. What may produce a certain effect for one amp/speaker combination may not do so for another.

Hi Auto,

So I assume you are of the "can't measure it, doesn't exist" frame of mind.

Not much to say. That horse is truly dead.

GG

 

[Victor]

The wide space between the cores makes for higher inductance.

You missed the point. The point is not "take a standard figure 8, add a spacer then lament the fact we suddenly have mutual inductance issues". The point is if you take standard cable e.g. NAIM a4/5 or equivalent, be it monster cable or anything else, and half the length you halve these 3 properties.
I could equally say, "parallel strands of straight wire can reduce inductance more than their mutual inductance increases it" but it's irrelevant as these are features of manufactured cables we cannot change.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Auto,

The only mandatory wire / manufacturer interface that I'm aware of is MIT and Spectral electronics.

Although I appreciate all the theory and postulation, there's only one bottom line. How does it sound and does it allow one to better connect with the music?

I, for one, have little interest in the rest.

Glad you like the MIT. That specific product has gotten great reviews for its relative low cost made by a hi-end wire manufacturer.

Happy listening.

Gordon

 

[autoformer]

Well, on that we can certainly agree. I just told the left side of my brain to go sit in the corner while I enjoy some music. What matter to me is that, for the first time. I am genuinely enjoying my Summit Xs.

BTW, I ended up with the Transparent Music Wave cable. Along with the switch to 2 ohm amp taps, I've finally found the tweak that works for me!

Auto,

The only mandatory wire / manufacturer interface that I'm aware of is MIT and Spectral electronics.

Although I appreciate all the theory and postulation, there's only one bottom line. How does it sound and does it allow one to better connect with the music?

I, for one, have little interest in the rest.

Glad you like the MIT. That specific product has gotten great reviews for its relative low cost made by a hi-end wire manufacturer.

Happy listening.

Gordon

 

[Tosh]

You missed the point. The point is not "take a standard figure 8, add a spacer then lament the fact we suddenly have mutual inductance issues". The point is if you take standard cable e.g. NAIM a4/5 or equivalent, be it monster cable or anything else, and half the length you halve these 3 properties.
I could equally say, "parallel strands of straight wire can reduce inductance more than their mutual inductance increases it" but it's irrelevant as these are features of manufactured cables we cannot change.

OK. But in context, your initial point seemed to be suggesting to use wire "with wide spacer between the cores," so it drew a comment.

One point of my linking to the DIY cable test was to show that one can influence the self inductance/capacitance balance by using different braiding (or twisting) techniques and different types of commonly and cheaply available cables, so there are some things one can change...

 

[Victor]

OK. But in context, your initial point seemed to be suggesting to use wire "with wide spacer between the cores," so it drew a comment.

One point of my linking to the DIY cable test was to show that one can influence the self inductance/capacitance balance by using different braiding (or twisting) techniques and different types of commonly and cheaply available cables, so there are some things one can change...

Fair enough. My reason for promoting cables with spacers was solely to reduce capacitance (without knowing what kind of amp - see the first para of Autoformer's "Nelson Pass" link for the "why").
In the ML Forum the following white paper is more relevant :

http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/cables-wp


Thanks for the additional link.
Victor.

 

[autoformer]

Thank you for the link to the Sanders Sound Systems white paper, Victor. Very informative.

In the ML Forum the following white paper is more relevant :

http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/cables-wp


Thanks for the additional link.
Victor.

 

[Victor]

Thank you for the link to the Sanders Sound Systems white paper, Victor. Very informative.

My pleasure, Auto
Just to assure you that this wasn't just an intellectual exercise for me...I did test my shortened Naim cable (Nelson Pass stole my thunder with his idealisation of a zero length cable. I'm not quite there yet but getting there. Lol! ) against more exotic $$$ opposition and found that I clearly preferred the results with the improvised home made effort.
Given how impressed I was with the appearance of the exotic bi-wires, placebo must have been severely over-ridden by the abilities of the basic cable.
I do understand however if synergy prevents this being the solution for everyone.

I can only echo Gordon's words, if it works that's all that matters.:music:
Cheers...............Victor.

 

[GDSA]

Looking at the dates in some of the quoted links in this thread, I would think you would need to treat some of the info with more than a little scepticism.
You really do need to know what century the article was written in before giving the info too much weight.


If you go back far enough for medical reference material, you could probably deduce that heart transplants would never be possible.

I bet if you were to interview most of those "authors" today, they would be embarrassed by some of their statements.

Internet is wonderous, but pseudo science abounds!

 

[donberry]

Take from this what you will. HERE

For now I personally am going to spend my audio money on better power cables, so for now I have ordered gold plated spades and will be grabbing some 12/4 wire from Lowes while I am getting wood for my garage.
Once I do get new power cables for everything, not just the SL3, and upgrade all of my interconnects, I will be on the hunt for better speaker wire.