ML panel obscene pricing

[18000rpm]

My Aeon i and Stage X could use new panels so I checked the prices with a dealer.

Aeon i - $995/pair
Stage X - $895/piece

The price for the Stage X panel is simply obscene! A tiny panel less than HALF the size of ONE Aeon i panel and they want $900 for it!

Just needed to vent.

 

[JonFo]

I hear you, but having witnessed in person the effort it takes to assemble the panels, the amount of human effort to make the center channel panels is about the same as a large panel. And since center panel replacements are not common, the time to change the jigs must be figured in.

At least one can still buy replacements for 30-year-old speakers, like my rear Sequels that I plan to repanel in a year or so.

 

[Jazzman53]

Geeze, I feel your pain.
And I'm guessing that cost does not include shipping?

Even if you find someone to rebuild a dead panel (Russ Knotts at Just Real Music does good work at a fair price), it can't be inexpensive with shipping added in.

I'm communicating with someone now who just purchased new replacement panels but still wants to rebuild his older panels, as time permits (his words).

I will walk him thru the rebuild if/when he gets around to it.

I am also encouraging him to document the rebuild with photos, and then post the rebuild as a step-by-step guide, on this forum.

Hopefully that will happen at some point, and it may save others some grief and expense, as most of us have more time than money.

A pair of hybrid panels (any size) could be fully rebuilt with new diaphragms in a weekend for about $300 (max).

 

[ttocs]

ML's pricing for replacement panels seems right in line to me.

12 years ago my JBL L-110 woofers needed to be re-coned which was something they needed about every ten years. The first two times the cost was $375 in 1989, and $425 in 2000, including return shipping from JBL, but in 2011 it was $650 from another company since JBL wasn't doing this anymore (at the time, they might be doing this again for speakers of that vintage, dunno). So I bought ML Vista speakers instead. The JBL speakers originally cost me $700 in 1979.

So $900 for something as specialized as ML speakers are seems about right.

 

[18000rpm]

It is the $900 for the small Stage X panel that I'm unhappy about. It's less than HALF the size of ONE Aeon i panel and yet costs nearly same as a pair of them!

I didn't vent when I replaced the panels for my Prodigy ($2K+) a few years back.

I also have a pair of Summits in my bedroom that can use new panels but I can't justify the cost of replacements ($2.5K) since I hardly ever use them.

And for those who don't know, in 2012 Martin Logan basically TRIPLED the cost of replacement panels overnight. A pair of large panels went from a few hundred to nearly $2K suddenly. Panels went from wear-and-tear items that you can easily replace when you feel sound volume has diminished, to a significant portion of the price of the speakers themselves. It also has the unfortunate side-effect of making used ML speakers have very little value. Older ML speakers with unknown panel condition are close to worthless. There's a guy on the DIY Audio forum who has close to a dozen pairs of old ML speakers as he would get them for free or close to free, then rebuild the panels himself.

 

[Jazzman53]

Most of the cost would be labor, which wouldn't be much different for small or large panels.

The materials would be a bit more for a larger panel because the double-sided tape especially, is ridiculously expensive. ML would stock these tapes in bulk quantities and meter them out as needed so their amortized materials cost would be less than DIY.

The cost of a DIY rebuild would not vary at all because the min-buy material quantities would be the same regardless of the panel size. For example; a 36 yd roll of 3/4 x 1/16 foam tape is $98 + shipping at McMaster Carr, and would be enough for two large or two small panels.

A DIY rebuild (two panels) would include two thicknesses of double-sided adhesive tape + copper foil tape + diaphragm film + diaphragm coating + miscellaneous cleaning solvents-- about $300 total.

 

[Robert D]

The cost of everything is ridiculous now. Just take your family to eat at Wendy's and you'll see it. I think their price increase is right in line with everything else. It is what it is. I ***** constantly about it, but Martin Logan is right in line with the rest of the market.

My Aragon dual monoblock amp brand new cost me $4200 in 2015, 8 years ago. Now the very same amp sells for $14,000. The name changed but when you look at all of the stats on it you can see it's the same amp.

To build a 2600 foot ranch home with a 3 car garage and nice finish like we want on a lot will cost us about $1.1 million. Just 4 years ago in 2019 that same home would have been just $750,000. That's nearly a 50% increase in home building price in just 4 years.

So I'm not too angry at Martin Logan about any of their pricing, but I'm angry in general about the state of the economy and inflation. Something has to bust eventually.

 

[Nuri58]

My Aeon i and Stage X could use new panels so I checked the prices with a dealer.

Aeon i - $995/pair
Stage X - $895/piece

The price for the Stage X panel is simply obscene! A tiny panel less than HALF the size of ONE Aeon i panel and they want $900 for it!

Just needed to vent.

I think you could have asked the same when you bought the stage - around the cost of the 2 aeon i so replacement about the same amd costum made so setting up the machine is possible a huge chunk of it.

 

[Robert D]

I think you could have asked the same when you bought the stage - around the cost of the 2 aeon i so replacement about the same amd costum made so setting up the machine is possible a huge chunk of it.

A few years ago I inquired with Ron at Martin Logan about doing a rebuild of my Theater i panel and realized it just didn't make any sense to get a new panel. They sold it at the local store I used on consignment for $750. I was ok with that.

 

[thomasmasi]

My Aeon i and Stage X could use new panels so I checked the prices with a dealer.

Aeon i - $995/pair
Stage X - $895/piece

The price for the Stage X panel is simply obscene! A tiny panel less than HALF the size of ONE Aeon i panel and they want $900 for it!

Just needed to vent.

My replacement Prodigy's panels should ship today from Martin Logan. The cost was $2940.27 which includes shipping. My only issue was when I ask if the new panels came with new foam inserts I was told no. Three grand and i was instructed to go to my local home improvement store and purchase them there. It is what it is. I remember 28 years ago or so I had a dead spot in one of my Monolith iii's panels. Service suggested some quick fixes which did not work so they sent me a new pair for free including shipping and the speakers were not in warranty. So I guess I'm still ahead of the game. Good luck

A few years ago I inquired with Ron at Martin Logan about doing a rebuild of my Theater i panel and realized it just didn't make any sense to get a new panel. They sold it at the local store I used on consignment for $750. I was ok with

 

[Robert D]

My replacement Prodigy's panels should ship today from Martin Logan. The cost was $2940.27 which includes shipping. My only issue was when I ask if the new panels came with new foam inserts I was told no. Three grand and i was instructed to go to my local home improvement store and purchase them there. It is what it is. I remember 28 years ago or so I had a dead spot in one of my Monolith iii's panels. Service suggested some quick fixes which did not work so they sent me a new pair for free including shipping and the speakers were not in warranty. So I guess I'm still ahead of the game. Good luck

That's about exactly what I paid for my Prodigy panels and it's been 2 years or more, so price hasn't gone up in that time period. I'm very happy with my purchase of the panels. The only negative for me was installing the new panels because I had trouble lining up the screw holes on the new plastic frame with the holes in the wood frame. I had to drill a couple of new holes, but it wasn't terrible. Be sure to install the stat stop brackets at the bottom. Those are a bit tricky to line up holes, but work well.

 

[thomasmasi]

That's about exactly what I paid for my Prodigy panels and it's been 2 years or more, so price hasn't gone up in that time period. I'm very happy with my purchase of the panels. The only negative for me was installing the new panels because I had trouble lining up the screw holes on the new plastic frame with the holes in the wood frame. I had to drill a couple of new holes, but it wasn't terrible. Be sure to install the stat stop brackets at the bottom. Those are a bit tricky to line up holes, but work well.

Thanks Robert. What works best for me was to split the speakers in half by loosening the bottom screws and removing the top 2 screws then working the panels on my dining room table one at a time. Thank God I am no longer married this way my dinning room table doubles as a work bench.

 

[Leporello]

The panel is a sizable portion of what it costs to build a ML speaker system. I'm happy that ML is willing to make panels for older speakers (not necessarily true for other parts, though). Like with an automobile, it's a judgement call whether you want to invest in parts to restore the old, or move on to a new. I'm not convinced panels need replacing as often as some people suggest here though.

I don't think it's just a matter of panel size. My CLS II panel that I stupidly knocked over and fell on top of cost a lot more than $995, can't remember the exact figure. Not only is it large, it has different sized, stagger tuned sub sections. Some panels have finer stater pitch than others.

Inflation has always been a thing. Sometimes it is high, sometimes low. There are many things that affect it, it isn't just one thing. Government fiscal and monetary policies, sure (the Fed controls monetary policy and they're supposed to be independent of the elected government), but also unexpected supply chain disruptions, pressure on salaries (everyone wants to make more money), natural disasters, wars, greedy sellers and manufacturers (it does happen). There's very little we as individuals can do to affect it, other than not asking for raises and not buying things we think are priced too high. It's not helpful being angry about it. Everything costs a lot more than it did 30 years ago, but I'm making a lot more money than I did 30 years ago. If you can keep up with it, or stay ahead of it, you'll be OK.

"Audiophilliac" Steve Gutenberg did a video a year or two ago pushing back on the notion that hi fi is so outrageously priced now. He compared a McIntosh piece from the 1960's with a reboot of it, might have been the MC275. It cost hundreds back then, thousands now, but when you apply the rate of inflation each year it's about in line. When I first got into high end audio ("perfectionist" audio back then, I think it was Harry Pearson who first applied the term "high end") and lusted after the Infinity Servo Static system, it cost around $1600, about the same as a new Volkswagen bug. What does a budget automobile cost now? Probably almost $20,000. Where I live, a starter home is at least $200,000. Thought of in those terms, the prices of hi fi don't seem so bad.

The good news is, buying an older pair of ML 'stats and repaneling them can be a good and economically viable option. I see CLS, CLS II, CLS IIz's, etc. for around 2 grand. As long as I can get panels if I need them, I'm fine with mine.

 

[Robert D]

Thanks Robert. What works best for me was to split the speakers in half by loosening the bottom screws and removing the top 2 screws then working the panels on my dining room table one at a time. Thank God I am no longer married this way my dinning room table doubles as a work bench.

I use my kitchen island for a work table. I know how it is.

 

[Robert D]

The panel is a sizable portion of what it costs to build a ML speaker system. I'm happy that ML is willing to make panels for older speakers (not necessarily true for other parts, though). Like with an automobile, it's a judgement call whether you want to invest in parts to restore the old, or move on to a new. I'm not convinced panels need replacing as often as some people suggest here though.

I don't think it's just a matter of panel size. My CLS II panel that I stupidly knocked over and fell on top of cost a lot more than $995, can't remember the exact figure. Not only is it large, it has different sized, stagger tuned sub sections. Some panels have finer stater pitch than others.

Inflation has always been a thing. Sometimes it is high, sometimes low. There are many things that affect it, it isn't just one thing. Government fiscal and monetary policies, sure (the Fed controls monetary policy and they're supposed to be independent of the elected government), but also unexpected supply chain disruptions, pressure on salaries (everyone wants to make more money), natural disasters, wars, greedy sellers and manufacturers (it does happen). There's very little we as individuals can do to affect it, other than not asking for raises and not buying things we think are priced too high. It's not helpful being angry about it. Everything costs a lot more than it did 30 years ago, but I'm making a lot more money than I did 30 years ago. If you can keep up with it, or stay ahead of it, you'll be OK.

"Audiophilliac" Steve Gutenberg did a video a year or two ago pushing back on the notion that hi fi is so outrageously priced now. He compared a McIntosh piece from the 1960's with a reboot of it, might have been the MC275. It cost hundreds back then, thousands now, but when you apply the rate of inflation each year it's about in line. When I first got into high end audio ("perfectionist" audio back then, I think it was Harry Pearson who first applied the term "high end") and lusted after the Infinity Servo Static system, it cost around $1600, about the same as a new Volkswagen bug. What does a budget automobile cost now? Probably almost $20,000. Where I live, a starter home is at least $200,000. Thought of in those terms, the prices of hi fi don't seem so bad.

The good news is, buying an older pair of ML 'stats and repaneling them can be a good and economically viable option. I see CLS, CLS II, CLS IIz's, etc. for around 2 grand. As long as I can get panels if I need them, I'm fine with mine.

We are replacing a 2010 Volvo we have with a new Mazda. It's a Cx5 and that's one of their most affordable cars. It's $39,000 sticker. You can get the lowest trim and base engine for $29,000. That's about as low as you'll find in new cars. Chevy does have some cheaper I think but we didn't look.

What's frustrating to me is how home building prices haven't come down a bit, and in fact they've only gone up the past year. Supply of building materials is much better too, and prices down on things like lumber. It's all demand for homes that's got prices jacked up on that. The Fed is going to raise rates once before the end of the year. What happens after that of course is unknown.

 

[Mirolab]

3 years ago, I was faced with paying $1500 for new SL3 panels.... this for speakers that I bought used in y2000, for about $1800. Then I remembered that new Montis go for $10k, and that put it in perspective. My SL3's are now BETTER than new, with new panels, and upgraded Xover caps!

 

[Russr]

In 2002 I bought new panels for my Aerius & SL3's. They were something like $400 & $600 per pair.
Seems likee the major price hike occurred after the acqusition by Shoreview in 2005. They probably figured that cheap panel replacement was cannibalizing new speaker sales, so "make the batsards (that's us) pay"! Sucks, ut the price point still makes it possible to get almost-new speakers for a fraction of the price.

 

[gvera]

Replaced my Odyssey's panels in 2014, $1714 ($1639 + $75 S&H) for the pair.
The speakers msrp was $6495 in 2001 so the replacement panel cost was fine for me.

 

[Nuri58]

Yeah, when it comes to abroad you can double up prices - at least in Denmark. My Cinema I's panel and step up transformer failed. Cost for repair = a new EM C. The importer proposed a demo Focus instead that I audited and brought home with me.

I actually didn't plan any more upgrades rather downgrades as I'm getting closer to retirement so demands will go down. But then again with the sound in the Focus and the likelihood of the Aeon i failing say in 5 years I updated the fronts, although no real need, opting for the ELS 9 but ended settling for the EM X - combination of sound/cost/size (say WAF). Now the consequence is I need give turntable to some new bits and pieces to teally benefit ftom the new LS, well I upgradtrd my headset or ear speakers as Stax calls it to the Omega series - that has an even better sound except you dont feel the bass - another reason to improve the turntable. And that will be my final system once again Never ending storry...

 

[gvera]

Yeah, when it comes to abroad you can double up prices - at least in Denmark. My Cinema I's panel and step up transformer failed. Cost for repair = a new EM C. The importer proposed a demo Focus instead that I audited and brought home with me.

I actually didn't plan any more upgrades rather downgrades as I'm getting closer to retirement so demands will go down. But then again with the sound in the Focus and the likelihood of the Aeon i failing say in 5 years I updated the fronts, although no real need, opting for the ELS 9 but ended settling for the EM X - combination of sound/cost/size (say WAF). Now the consequence is I need give turntable to some new bits and pieces to teally benefit ftom the new LS, well I upgradtrd my headset or ear speakers as Stax calls it to the Omega series - that has an even better sound except you dont feel the bass - another reason to improve the turntable. And that will be my final system once again Never ending storry...

I'm abroad also, but I live in Uruguay, where there is no ML dealer/distributor.
I've been able to buy panels directly from ML US and then import them myself.
ML support has been always exellent, a couple of years ago I bought a used pair of Montis in the US after ML Support gave me instructions on how to modify them to work on a 220V/50Hz grid.