ML Motion 35XT vs KEF LS50

[TomDac]

it's so weird that there are no reviews of the ML Motion 35XT. I am going to try and have a listen to some soon and would like to compare them to the KEF LS50. Has anyone here heard both? Would love to hear some thoughts.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Tom, tough choice. On the one hand, the KEF has stellar reviews, but has a 7db less efficiency rating and needs a really good amp to sound its best. Of course, most speakers need a good amp to sound their best, but I bet it would be more important to the KEF, as it is very revealing. The KEF can also play very loud, but only to a certain level and then the bass becomes one note, according to reviews I've read. When I listened to them, I didn't notice this at all, though and thought they sounded great. I've not heard the ML, but I have heard quite a few speakers near its size that have very similar configuration. They also sounded good. I would consider the volume of the room in which they are to be placed, the volumes you most likely will listen to and amplifier requirements for either. Of course, the best way is to be able to audition both, but there's the rub. Good luck!

 

[TomDac]

I spent a couple hours at my local KEF dealer today and listened to the LS50, REF 5 , R300 and R900..... To my ears, the R300 wins over the LS50 by a small margin, so that is the contender at this point. More auditions will be forthcoming... Anyone have any suggestions? Stand mount with a reasonable price tag.

 

[edwinr]

My shortlist for the best sounding bookshelf/standmount speakers are:

1. Stirling LS3/5a V2 (Beautiful speakers - limited loudness)

2. Stirling LS3/6 (Beautiful speakers - not so limited loudness)

3. Harbeth C7ES-3 (Yum!)

4. ATC SCM 50 (Active/standmount/VERY expensive/VERY loud)

5. Bowers and Wilkins 805 Diamonds (Very nice. Not sure about the looks)

6. Paradigm Signature S2 (Don't laugh. These are suprisingly good!)

 

[JonFo]

Tom, there is a review out on the Motion 35 in Tone Audio Magazine http://www.tonepublications.com/magazine/issue-68/, great review.

I'm with you on the KEF's, they are what I'd consider if needing to put box speakers in a smaller room. I'm considering some KEF in-ceilings for my Atmos height speakers due to the coincident sound source their design delivers.

If willing to look at active speakers with AMT tweeters, I might suggest the Emotiva Stealth 8.

 

[MiTT]

I spent a couple hours at my local KEF dealer today and listened to the LS50, REF 5 , R300 and R900..... To my ears, the R300 wins over the LS50 by a small margin, so that is the contender at this point. More auditions will be forthcoming... Anyone have any suggestions? Stand mount with a reasonable price tag.

Tom, what did you think of the Ref 5's? I'm assuming they didn't have the Ref 1's or Ref 3's?

Another stand mount still on my short list at about the same price point as the Ref 1's is the Joseph Audio Pulsar. I've heard them many times over the past 3-4 years at RMAF and they always sound pretty fantastic.

 

[TomDac]

Ref 5's were in a small room and I felt they overpowered the room. I was not impressed. They are way too big, too.

They didn't have the Ref 1 or 3. For about 4500, I can get the R300s, r200c and the r400b sub and he'll throw in a pair of custom design FS104 stands. I think I can live with that. While I'd love to hear the Ref 1, at 7500, I am not sure they are in my budget. My system is more for HT now than anything else.... Of course once I retire, I may do more 2 channel listening.

Still more auditioning to do.

 

[TomDac]

Tom, there is a review out on the Motion 35 in Tone Audio Magazine http://www.tonepublications.com/magazine/issue-68/

Thanks Jon.... good review and really makes me feel the need to hear them in person.

 

[repman]

Tom you might consider the Golden Ear , I liked them better than the ML motion , the folded ribbon tweeter was ultra smooth and extended and did not sound as harsh to my ears as the ML motion. I really liked the Aon 3 .

These are $399 each for the 2's and $499 each for the 3's as I recall so they are less than the Kef and the ML . I think they are an exceptional deal. if you go to the GoldenEar website they have many reviews on both of these models .

Good luck on your search Tom.




GoldenEar Aon 12 Bookshelf speaker
The Aon 2 and 3 are exceptionally compact, ultra-high-performance bookshelf speakers that were originally developed for use as nearfield monitors in professional mixing applications. The design goal was to produce modestly-sized shelf or stand-mountable speakers that would achieve accurate high-definition sonic reproduction, with superb three-dimensional imaging, comparable to that achieved by GoldenEar’s award-winning Triton Two Towers. Although they don’t have quite the awe-inspiring bass of the floor-standing Tritons, great care has been taken, and extensive technology has been incorporated, to ensure that the Aons can deliver a remarkably satisfying listening experience without the need for a separate subwoofer.

Both Aon models incorporate GoldenEar-designed cast-basket bass/midrange drivers with technology derived from the midrange units developed for the Tritons. In addition, they both use the same extraordinary and costly High Velocity Folded Ribbon (HVFR™) high frequency radiator used in the Tritons. Lastly, each Aon model utilizes two side-mounted planar low-frequency radiators in a dynamically balanced configuration in order to properly load the bass/midrange drivers for an open, box-less midrange, while also contributing to the Aons’ remarkably extended bass for such small enclosures.

The Aons are of a truncated pyramidal construction, which results in significant performance advantages due to the non-parallel cabinet walls and the reduced baffle area around the tweeter. Aesthetically, the sleek, attractive pyramid-inspired shape combined with appealing design details including piano-gloss black end-caps, results in beautiful speakers that are both elegant and distinctive.


Aon 2



The ultra-compact, 12" Tall Aon 2 Bookshelf Monitor (on right in the photo to right) incorporates a 6", High-Definition, Multi-Vaned Phase Plug (MVPP™), cast-basket Mid-Bass Driver, coupled to two 6-1/2" Inertially-balanced side-mounted Low Frequency Radiators and the GoldenEar High-Velocity Folded Ribbon Tweeter (HVFR™).

Aon 3



The compact, 14" Tall Aon 3 Bookshelf Monitor (on left in photo to right, with grille sock removed) incorporates a 7", High-Definition, Multi-Vaned Phase Plug (MVPP™), cast-basket Mid-Bass Driver, coupled to two 8" Inertially-balanced side-mounted Low Frequency Radiators and the GoldenEar High-Velocity Folded Ribbon Tweeter (HVFR™).

 

[MiTT]

Ref 5's were in a small room and I felt they overpowered the room. I was not impressed. They are way too big, too.

They didn't have the Ref 1 or 3. For about 4500, I can get the R300s, r200c and the r400b sub and he'll throw in a pair of custom design FS104 stands. I think I can live with that. While I'd love to hear the Ref 1, at 7500, I am not sure they are in my budget. My system is more for HT now than anything else.... Of course once I retire, I may do more 2 channel listening.

Still more auditioning to do.

Interesting Tom. I would have thought that the R300's would have more extension on the low end given that they are a 3 way as opposed to the LS-50's, but after reading a few reviews it doesn't sound like that is the case. There is a good comparison between the two in the Tone Audio review of the R300's:

With so much attention focused on KEF’s amazing LS50, the R300 holds its own surprisingly well. It shares the LS50’s Uni-Q driver technology and to some extent its voicing, but it is a different animal indeed. The LS50 offers a slightly wider frequency response, with a smidge less midrange purity. However, it does appear to play slightly louder, so each will appeal to a different user. Think of the LS50 as a European version of the Lotus Esprit, and the R300 as its slightly heavier yet slightly more-comfortable U.S. sibling.

I was going to ask if you listened to them (both the LS-50 and the R300) with a good sub connected, as it really does make a huge difference. I am so pleased with my LS-50's now that I've got them in the new room and connected to my REL Stadium III that I am seriously considering selling my CLS IIz's (I know, that might get me run off the island - but they really are that good). I spent a lot of time yesterday swapping between the two and quite frankly, the CLS's couldn't quite keep up dynamically or in image localization and soundstage. Granted - with my new room being somewhat narrow, the CLS's are a bit too close together, but I was always aware of the fact that I was listening to a pair of large panels. That's the beauty of small standmounts actually, they tend to disappear into the soundstage once properly set up, and since the setup is easier due to their size, they are pretty easy to dial in.

Kind of funny that you and I are going on a similar journey right now...

 

[User211]

Mark & Daniel make great small AMT speakers before ML tried (never heard any) but the LS50 is a cracker for the money.

Oddy I have never heard the CLS but compared to CLX Tom which I know you have, the LS50 just isn't in the same league IMHO. Nowhere near. I know you will agree.

Some subs or a sub, though, as Tim says, could be really quite a good combo

 

[amey01]

Seriously, Have a listen to the ADAM A7X - active and ribbon tweeter. There is also the Tensor Delta if you can find a pair on the 'Gon.

And the Audio Physic Step 25+ is also fantastic if you are after that 'stat sound as much as is possible from a box speaker.

 

[User211]

Defo 2nd Adam's suggestion based on larger Adam loudspeakers. Not heard the smaller ones.

Just boils down to what you can get your ears round, practically.

 

[TomDac]

I don't want something so esoteric that I'd not be able to get it serviced, which makes the mass produced KEFs or ML Motions attractive... and nothing active, so the Adam and Tensor is out. I want good sound, but am not chasing the perfect sound. Stand mounts, a sub and a center... and I don't wanna break the bank.

The Audio Physic looks good... Might be out of my price range, but I'd like to hear them.

 

[TomDac]

Interesting Tom. I would have thought that the R300's would have more extension on the low end given that they are a 3 way as opposed to the LS-50's, but after reading a few reviews it doesn't sound like that is the case. There is a good comparison between the two in the Tone Audio review of the R300's:

With so much attention focused on KEF’s amazing LS50, the R300 holds its own surprisingly well. It shares the LS50’s Uni-Q driver technology and to some extent its voicing, but it is a different animal indeed. The LS50 offers a slightly wider frequency response, with a smidge less midrange purity. However, it does appear to play slightly louder, so each will appeal to a different user. Think of the LS50 as a European version of the Lotus Esprit, and the R300 as its slightly heavier yet slightly more-comfortable U.S. sibling.

I was going to ask if you listened to them (both the LS-50 and the R300) with a good sub connected, as it really does make a huge difference. I am so pleased with my LS-50's now that I've got them in the new room and connected to my REL Stadium III that I am seriously considering selling my CLS IIz's (I know, that might get me run off the island - but they really are that good). I spent a lot of time yesterday swapping between the two and quite frankly, the CLS's couldn't quite keep up dynamically or in image localization and soundstage. Granted - with my new room being somewhat narrow, the CLS's are a bit too close together, but I was always aware of the fact that I was listening to a pair of large panels. That's the beauty of small standmounts actually, they tend to disappear into the soundstage once properly set up, and since the setup is easier due to their size, they are pretty easy to dial in.

Kind of funny that you and I are going on a similar journey right now...

Yeah, the R300 was never on my radar because all the reviews pointed me in the direction of the LS50, but I'm so glad I listened to them. I did NOT hear either of them with a sub, but since this system will be primarily for HT, a sub that mates well is essential... and a matching center, obviously.

Yeah.. I kinda feel like my current system was sonic nirvana for me, and now that the Pass X250 is gone, I'm really just ready for the downsizing and finding something I can live with as I ride off into the sunset! LOL.

To be honest when i sat down and listened to the LS50's, my initial reaction was "OH HELL NO" and the voice inside my head said, "your system kills this.. Keep the Summits!". We are all very spoiled having ESL's. Big sound coming from a big panel. It's magical. The more I listened to the LS50, the better I liked it and that voice in my head calmed down a bit. But I knew they were not "the one". Then we went into the next room and heard the R300's and we both were smiling right away... Big, rich, full sound and priced very close to the LS50. The more we listened to them, the more I was sure they would be fine and that I could live with them for years.

I think it would be very interesting to do a blindfold test with 100 people for both of these speakers because I truly believe there is some mind-trickery going on when you see the LS50's small size and then hear them. I kept saying, "I can't believe something so small sounds so good". It really is amazing.

 

[User211]

In so many way the big panel is the antidote to the small monitor and vice versa.

 

[User211]

Sorry been mobile phoning it this evening (til now) that would be "ways".

 

[amey01]

The Audio Physic looks good... Might be out of my price range, but I'd like to hear them.

The ADAMs are great (and would be my choice) but honestly, I've not heard a box speaker that sounds more like a 'stat than Audio Physic which is why I mentioned them.

They are so frighteningly detailed and pure and uncoloured through the midrange.

I've only heard the Step casually (and through a comparator), but the sound was consistent with what I've heard from the larger ones (to which I've listened extensively) and they are absolutely mind-snapping!!

 

[longhorn]

Yeah, the R300 was never on my radar because all the reviews pointed me in the direction of the LS50, but I'm so glad I listened to them. I did NOT hear either of them with a sub, but since this system will be primarily for HT, a sub that mates well is essential... and a matching center, obviously.

Yeah.. I kinda feel like my current system was sonic nirvana for me, and now that the Pass X250 is gone, I'm really just ready for the downsizing and finding something I can live with as I ride off into the sunset! LOL.

To be honest when i sat down and listened to the LS50's, my initial reaction was "OH HELL NO" and the voice inside my head said, "your system kills this.. Keep the Summits!". We are all very spoiled having ESL's. Big sound coming from a big panel. It's magical. The more I listened to the LS50, the better I liked it and that voice in my head calmed down a bit. But I knew they were not "the one". Then we went into the next room and heard the R300's and we both were smiling right away... Big, rich, full sound and priced very close to the LS50. The more we listened to them, the more I was sure they would be fine and that I could live with them for years.

I think it would be very interesting to do a blindfold test with 100 people for both of these speakers because I truly believe there is some mind-trickery going on when you see the LS50's small size and then hear them. I kept saying, "I can't believe something so small sounds so good". It really is amazing.

What specifically about the R300 did you like over the LS50? Since you are downsizing, what electronics or integrated do you plan on using with the KEFs? Did you consider the ML ELS motion?

 

[TomDac]

The R300 sounded fuller and more lush to me. The LS50 was very sterile and cold sounding. I'm not downsizing any of my front end.. Still will be using the Anthem Statement D2 and Squeezebox/Dac combo. Amp has changed from the Pass Labs to Wyred4Sound MC 500x5.

ML's Electromotion ESL was not on my radar because it needs electricity like the rest of the ESLs and that doesn't work in the new house, so the conventional ML's were kinda on the radar, but since there's only 1 bookshelf/standmount option in the ML lineup, and numerous folks here have told me privately that the LS50 bests the ML Motion 35XT, that's what I went to hear. Then since I felt the LS50 wasn't for me, going to a larger bookshelf/standmount seemed to make sense... ML doesn't have one, and I liked the R300, so that's how I reached this conclusion.