ML experience draws to a sad end

[Keystone]

Researching buyers should be aware that according to ML, their electrostatic panels are especially vulnerable to damage in warm humid climates. In my experience this flaw requires changing the panels approximately every 18 months.

Almost 3 years ago I bought a pair of EM Esl on Amazon Mexico and had them shipped to Cancun on the Caribbean coast. The speakers began to fail about a year later, requiring that both panels and a power supply be changed since one was also arcing. These were provided by ML under warranty and I collected them in the US because the factory warranty does not cover shipping to Mexico. Understandable.

Neither Amazon Mexico nor the local distributor were willing to help since the online retailer only covers you for 30 days and is not an authorized reseller, therefore the Mexican distributor is under no obligation. Wish I had known that also.

Following that initial repair the speakers worked for 15 months and then one of the them began to fade again. Vacuuming and cleaning the panel and terminals did not help. When I contacted ML for advice I was told flatly that I needed two new panels at an out of warranty cost of $1250 (plus shipping and customs to Mexico), or I could buy them from the Mexican distributor, a thousand miles away in Mexico City. The speakers are worth $2000 new. And in that same e-mail from the service department I was told that: "Humidity does have quite a negative affect on the panels unfortunately." Too bad ML does not say that in its product description.

The speakers sound good but I found them to be very unreliable.

Goodbye Martin Logan.

 

[Robert D]

I guess your home does not have air conditioning? Id think if the space is air conditioned that the humidity would be controlled. If you dont have air conditioning you could try using a dehumidifier in the room.

 

[roni44]

I live in Taiwan with average of around 80% humidity. While I've never bought a brand new pair of ML locally, so far I've managed used pair of Clarity and EM ESL. Clarity been with me 2 years before I sold it and the panel was still functioning good. My friend revived a pair of EM ESL with soap and water, and shortly under mine possession I cleaned up further with distill water again. EM ESL has been with me about 6 months now and I vacuum regularly with pillow cases over the panel when not in use. Kept away from direct sunlight, and I smoke in kitchen with exhaust hood on whenever. A/C is on during Spring to Fall whenever someone is home. So far my experience with humidity on ML has been trouble free and hopes it keeps that way.

 

[spkrdctr]

Yes, it is always a buyer beware situation with many products. Regular cone speakers will probably give you a long life in high humidity. Especially if they are plastic, aluminum or carbon treated cones. High humidity alone will not bother the MDF cabinets as long as they do not actually get wet. I hope you find a nice replacement brand that you can enjoy! If looking, I would recommend you check out "Audioholics" website. Also Audio Science Review tests a lot of speakers too. Good Luck!

 

[JonFo]

Any electrostatic design will have issues with humidity >60%.
The design principle needs a non-conductive air gap between the stator and diaphragm to function efficiently.

The humidity is essentially shorting the diaphragm.
That stresses the panel AND the high-voltage energizer.

So AC (or dehumidifier) is a requirement for use in high-humidity locations. I'd shoot for a <55% relative humidity level, and keeping it under 50% is best.

I live in the southeast US and our summers are very humid, so I keep the home at ~50% and the HT is slightly below that as it also has a dedicated mini-split AC for the adjacent equipment room, so the HT benefits from a constantly running AC system.
The panels on my rear speakers are 27 years old and still going strong.

 

[WestCoastMLO]

Does humidity only affect ML speakers, or electrostats? Is humidity a factor in considering ANY loudspeaker? I'm curious.

 

[gvera]

I live in Uruguay, humidity in summer is always above 80%, and my MLs never had a problem with it.
I changed my Odyssey's panels after 12 years just to keep them sounding as new, but in fact they were still fine and there was almost no change in sound.
The only difference with Cancún is the heat, it's colder around here.

I'm now planing to buy a pair of used Montis to replace the Odysseys, I hope the new tecnology panels are resistant as the older ones.

 

[Robert D]

I live in Uruguay, humidity in summer is always above 80%, and my MLs never had a problem with it.
I changed my Odyssey's panels after 12 years just to keep them sounding as new, but in fact they were still fine and there was almost no change in sound.
The only difference with Cancún is the heat, it's colder around here.

I'm now planing to buy a pair of used Montis to replace the Odysseys, I hope the new tecnology panels are resistant as the older ones.

Do you have/use central air conditioning?

 

[gvera]

A split A/C in the room where the MLs are.
I turn it on when I'm in the room and it's hot, but not just to keep the humidity low.

 

[spkrdctr]

Does humidity only affect ML speakers, or electrostats? Is humidity a factor in considering ANY loudspeaker? I'm curious.

It should not bother "most" speakers as long as they don't actually get wet. Living near the ocean on the beach can cause corrosion. Usually, regular speakers will survive fairly harsh environments.

 

[Robert D]

A split A/C in the room where the MLs are.
I turn it on when I'm in the room and it's hot, but not just to keep the humidity low.

Ok. Id think along as the room where the speakers are kept is cool with low humidity that it wouldn't matter what it's like outside.

 

[Robert D]

Suppose you could study what they do to make outdoor speakers and try to get something close to that.

 

[Phil in Ocala]

I bought Clarity 8 years ago USED...live in Central Fl where humidity is high as well as heat....no problem...I was listening to the music behind THE GOOD WIFE...last night and was just loved the sound

 

[Keystone]

Thank you all for your input. I know people who keep the AC on to cool their dogs. Keeping your speakers cool and dry that way is wasteful when no one is home all day. It's on in the evening. But I see your point. Mine is that considering the stators are (per ML) "quite" vulnerable to humid climates, they should note that for prospective buyers. Fine speakers for the money. I can only imagine what the Noelith would sound like, hopefully it is not vulnerable to humidity. Two severe faults in three years is more than I care to accept from a speaker.

Regards

 

[JonFo]

I can only imagine what the Noelith would sound like, hopefully it is not vulnerable to humidity

My Monolith panels are the same, and they too require humidity control.

Should ESL vendors make a bigger deal of this requirement?
Maybe, but I get why not. ESL is already finicky about so many other things, why make a big issue of something that affects so few. Most people with the means to buy ESL will typically have AC in their homes.
Dealers in very humid areas do tell their customers to use them in conditioned rooms.

Does humidity only affect ML speakers, or electrostats? Is humidity a factor in considering ANY loudspeaker? I'm curious.

ALL electrostatic speakers would be affected by high ambient humidity at the panel. As I noted, it's basic physics, water is a conductor between stator and diagram, and is basically shorting the HV supply and reducing the effectiveness of the electrostatic field.

They are fine when OFF, you can have high humidity. But you NEED to lower the humidity to 55% or less to power them back on.

 

[Stereonerd]

I had a pair of ML Purity's for 10 years in NZ where the average humidity is 87%, and I never had a problem. I had no air conditioning, just a well-ventilated, sun-free room. I now have a pair of Summits (second hand) that are already around a decade old and again, the panels have perfect sound.

 

[gvera]

My Monolith panels are the same, and they too require humidity control.

Should ESL vendors make a bigger deal of this requirement?
Maybe, but I get why not. ESL is already finicky about so many other things, why make a big issue of something that affects so few. Most people with the means to buy ESL will typically have AC in their homes.
Dealers in very humid areas do tell their customers to use them in conditioned rooms.



ALL electrostatic speakers would be affected by high ambient humidity at the panel. As I noted, it's basic physics, water is a conductor between stator and diagram, and is basically shorting the HV supply and reducing the effectiveness of the electrostatic field.

They are fine when OFF, you can have high humidity. But you NEED to lower the humidity to 55% or less to power them back on.

That's interesting, average humidity in Montevideo varies from 67% to 80% over the year, my Odysseys have been powered 24x7 for 20 years without a single problem.
I turn on the A/C in that room only when it's uncomfortable hot and I'm going to listen to music. Never just to low humidity.
And please note that the old Odysseys keep the panel powered at all times, they don't shut off when no signal is present, as newer model do.

 

[amey01]

Agree with most posts. I'm in Queensland where the humidity is basically steam for half the year. Keep the AC running when the speakers are running, otherwise keep them covered. Current speakers over 10 years old. Never had a problem.

 

[Robert D]

Didn't realize that so many folks don't have their ac running 24/7. We never turn ours off.

 

[gvera]

Didn't realize that so many folks don't have their ac running 24/7. We never turn ours off.

Mild climate, radiant floor heating in winter, few summer days that really need A/C. That's it.