MartinLogan Renaissance at AXPONA 2016

[amey01]

And yet, the cost of the higher end MLs has gone up stratospherically over the past few years.

The cost and quality has gone up. And so it should have.

The Summit was not a worthy "top model" for a high-end company. It made a mockery of ML as a high-end company.

Finally, we are starting to see some designs that are worthy of a company of ML's stature.

Of course, the cost has not (yet) gone anywhere near the Statement E2.........but I hope it does soon. I'd LOVE to see a Statement E3.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Of course, the cost has not (yet) gone anywhere near the Statement E2.........but I hope it does soon. I'd LOVE to see a Statement E3.

I heard the original Statement's at the ML factory in Lawrence, KS in 1989. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. Back then it was Krell amps, a California Labs CD player and the Statements which were HUGE!!!

4 x 12" CF woofers on each side. Nearly half a ton of speakers

 

[GaryG]

The cost and quality

I'd LOVE to see a Statement E3.

There was some talk and strong emphasis on just talk about creating a super Neolith. that would be interesting but as they say talk is cheap a super Neolith would be anything but cheap. Just trying to start a rumor.

GaryG

 

[User211]

I heard the original Statement's at the ML factory in Lawrence, KS in 1989. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. Back then it was Krell amps, a California Labs CD player and the Statements which were HUGE!!!

4 x 12" CF woofers on each side. Nearly half a ton of speakers

That's nothing I heard an array of E2s with Prince playing through them live.:wink:

 

[Peter Soderberg]

hello Gary, hope all is well and your are feeling good.
Remind Mike to bring the PBK or get one from Mike. you should get one as it does change after some play time. We have more time in the field and shows with them so a couple of points. Power cable upgrades can make a nice difference, they are taking quite a bit of break in given the woofer surrounds and the midbass switch and bass level controls are very handy on getting the final mix for your room.
Enjoy fine sir.

 

[Audioseduction]

The cost and quality has gone up. And so it should have.

The Summit was not a worthy "top model" for a high-end company. It made a mockery of ML as a high-end company.

Finally, we are starting to see some designs that are worthy of a company of ML's stature.

Of course, the cost has not (yet) gone anywhere near the Statement E2.........but I hope it does soon. I'd LOVE to see a Statement E3.

Why do you say that? I know people with 6 figure systems that consider my system with the Summit Xs to be a 2ch reference system.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Why do you say that? I know people with 6 figure systems that consider my system with the Summit Xs to be a 2ch reference system.

It's only natural that people who want to spend more on a system will look down on less expensive hardware.

Or if a person wants something that is BIGGER and more impressive to look at they will look down on something that is diminutive in scale.

If you have $200,000 burning a hole in your pocket for speakers "obviously" a $15K speaker just isn't going to cut it no matter how good it sounds.


I'm not making any comparative comments about sound quality, I'm just trying to describe the "mindset". When you are ready to spend $$$$$$ you will find something.

 

[bonzo]

I did listen to the Renaissance and Neolith, but that week had other things http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...apogee-grands!&p=390547&viewfull=1#post390547

 

[amey01]

Why do you say that? I know people with 6 figure systems that consider my system with the Summit Xs to be a 2ch reference system.

Is it a great speaker? Yes.
Is it a landmark product that shows off what ML as a high-end company can do? No.

 

[twich54]

Why do you say that? I know people with 6 figure systems that consider my system with the Summit Xs to be a 2ch reference system.

I was thinking the same thing George, me thinks Adam's use of the word 'mockery' was just a classic 'audiophile over exaggeration' !

 

[amey01]

I was thinking the same thing George, me thinks Adam's use of the word 'mockery' was just a classic 'audiophile over exaggeration' !

Maybe a little over-exaggeration.

But I hold my point. It is like calling a Subaru WRX a "Supercar".

Sure, its a great car and will out-perform most other cars on the road, but Ferrari it is not.

In the final analysis, ML probably agree with me. They have introduced the CLX, Neolith, Renaissance and a swathe of higher-end models since the Summit. I just wish they'd go a little further and give us a Statement e3

 

[twich54]

Maybe a little over-exaggeration.

no, rather a lot .......

But I hold my point. It is like calling a Subaru WRX a "Supercar".

Sure, its a great car and will out-perform most other cars on the road, but Ferrari it is not.

that's not the point, rather the Summit was 'the' best at the time for Logan

In the final analysis, ML probably agree with me.

doubt that as well ........

They have introduced the CLX, Neolith, Renaissance and a swathe of higher-end models since the Summit.

agreed, a sign that progress does indeed move the 'game' forward !

I just wish they'd go a little further and give us a Statement e3

you gonna buy a 'set' Adam ??

 

[amey01]

you gonna buy a 'set' Adam ??

I wish I was going to buy a set. But the number of speakers they sell is not the point.

The reason to produce a product like that is to serve as a supreme marketing / publicity tool, which serves to add kudos to the brand across the range.

That is marketing effort you can't buy with money - you have to make it yourself (by making a statement product, exactly as per the Naim Statement amplifier; or the Clearaudio Statement turntable; or the Sennheiser Orpheus headphone; Focal Grande Utopia EM; Avantgarde Trio/Basshorn; KEF Muon).

The return on development investment does not come in sales of the model; it comes in awareness and consequently sales in the lower-end speakers, as well as trickle-down technology.

doubt that as well ........

What are you trying to say then? The Summit was a better speaker than the Statement E2 / E2X?

rather the Summit was 'the' best at the time for Logan

True. Just as the WRX is the highest performing product in the Subaru range. That doesn't mean Subaru is hitting in the same league as Lamborghini, does it?

 

[RCHeliGuy]

The reason to produce a product like that is to serve as a supreme marketing / publicity tool, which serves to add kudos to the brand across the range.

Absolutely. You can talk about all the research that went into creating your pinnacle of engineering and patent a few of the cooler ideas and then let some of those advances trickle down to the rest of the lineup to show the product line has a grand heritage. It's very effective because people see themselves as getting a piece of something that is effectively unobtainium.

 

[timm]

I was thinking the same thing George, me thinks Adam's use of the word 'mockery' was just a classic 'audiophile over exaggeration' !

Yes... I think 'shamockery' would have been more appropriate... ... but seriously - I get Adam's point.... being - you should have a 'statement' speaker.... The summit is a great speaker..... and is a speaker that a lot of people can buy if they look at their portfolio - and determine that the money would have been better placed and decreased less in the purchase of say a summit X.... Others just got the jack to do it and justify it ..... But, now when you get into the 25K/50K/80K speaker.... well that makes us commoners a little anxious.... But, for most - the statement speaker isn't really for buying -- it is for the 'wow' - they can do this??? The Summit is a great 'purchaseable' speaker for most on the forum (some don't have to think so long... some have to convince themselves over many years ). But Neolith??? For 99.9% - Fahgettaboutit! Its just a curiosity you see and would like to hear - not buy.....

Ford created the Ford GT... but it cost a bunch.... not many sold... but more of a statement car.... I mean look at the rest of the product... Same with Chrysler and the Viper....

 

[Wildcat Rudy]

Well, that derailed quickly. :ROFL:

In the grand scheme of things at AXPONA, a lot of the well-regarded speakers were $10k+. Even the ProAc Response D48Rs that I liked were $11k, and those are two smaller woofers and a ribbon tweeter each. So I can't say I really had sticker shock over the Renaissance once I heard the price. Most of the specs mean nothing to me anyway, so that's a moot point--if my amp will drive it safely, and the bass goes down as low as I need it to, I'm good.

The rep did mention it's the top model in what will be a series of speakers--I'm not sure if they will all have the Renaissance name with a different number/letter designation afterward (which is what I took away from it), or they'll have different names. So there will be smaller versions of this as time goes on. I didn't note whether or not they are replacing another line with these.

Can't afford 'em anyway, but they were nice to listen to. I have to settle for used MLs for the time being. Good enough until I can make a step upward.

 

[Joey_V]

I'm back from AXPONA (Chicago), and had a chance to listen to ML's brand new Renaissance ESL15a stats in the Audio Video Interiors room. They were powering these with a pair of McIntosh MC-1.2kw (1200 watt) monoblocks.

Each Renaissance has a 500 watt class-D power amplifier built in, powering a pair of 12" woofers (one firing forward, the other towards the wall), which they mentioned helps smooth out the bass response within the room. The stat panel is 46"x15" and if I recall, the crossover frequency is at 300Hz. From what I heard across two different demos, it is a very seamless match. The room was less than ideal (it was rather long, and they had a separate demo on the other end of the room which they would switch to at half hour intervals), but I found this to be quite a powerful sounding speaker, a lot more dynamic than what I expected. The demo from the first row was OK, but when I revisited and sat two rows back, the imaging and soundstage locked in tightly.

This is the flagship of a new series of stats, so I'm hoping a model will come along that is far less than the $25k price tag of this pair. I certainly wouldn't turn them down if given to me. But they were one of the highlights of the show for me.

The only other speaker which drew me in was a pair of ProAc Response D48B, driven by some nice VTL tube electronics down on the lower level. They use a ribbon tweeter and a pair of 6-1/2" woofers--the bass from this was incredible, and the sound, again, was seamless. The rep in the room mentioned he liked these since his reference speakers are Quad electrostatics, and these came closest to the electrostatic sound of any "box" speaker he'd ever heard.

And I have to say that for the money, the demo of the ELAC UB5 bookshelf speaker was mightily impressive--it is in the upcoming Uni-Fi series. The entertaining Andrew Jones was on hand to describe the philosophy behind the speakers. For having a single 5-1/2" woofer, they filled the room with surprising amounts of bass (enough to blow around the curtains behind them!), and at $499/pair, I would have no issues recommending them to friends who have more modest system needs. There is also a matching tower speaker in the line with three woofers vs. one ($499 each), and a center channel.

Saw plenty of other things, and the marketplace kind of reached its hand into my wallet a few times...quite a good time!

The Renaissance 15a:
View attachment 18525

I like the look... I am sure this is going to be a fantastic piece.

 

[GaryG]

My Renaissance are in place and playing as I write this. My early impression is very positive. First I ordered these in Ferrari red to match the Neoliths as they are sitting next to the the Neoliths they nailed the color. Absolutely no difference in color between the one year old Neoliths and the new Renaisisance. Even though they won't.be next to each other in the long run I still wanted them identical. The sound is really good of course they don't reach the Neolith performance level ( bass is not as well bass integrated with panel as Neolths) but clearly outperforms the CLX with sub. Of course this is my opinion ymmv.

GaryG

 

[RCHeliGuy]

My Renaissance are in place and playing as I write this. My early impression is very positive. First I ordered these in Ferrari red to match the Neoliths as they are sitting next to the the Neoliths they nailed the color. Absolutely no difference in color between the one year old Neoliths and the new Renaisisance. Even though they won't.be next to each other in the long run I still wanted them identical. The sound is really good of course they don't reach the Neolith performance level ( bass is not as well bass integrated with panel as Neolths) but clearly outperforms the CLX with sub. Of course this is my opinion ymmv.

GaryG

What is your entire surround sound system comprised of once you put these in place in the back?

 

[GaryG]

The Renaissance are 7 ft off the front wall and center of panel to center of panel is a 9 ft. Spread. They are connected to the same down stream equipment as the Neoliths with what I believe is no weak links. seigfreid II's tube amps withs 650 watts per channel Berkeley Audio Alpha rs DAC fed by Mac book pro. Oppo 105 D player Pss Labs XP 2 pre. Dedicated 30 amps per side of power. These things are able to sing. I have never found any difference in power chords above and beyond stock, however, based on Peters earlier recommendation I have asked Andrew at AudioQuest to send me a demo pair of their NRG-4's for a 60 day trial.

GaryG