Martin Logan maintenance questions

[ck102020]

Hello everyone!

I am a young Martin Logan owner and an audio enthusiast. I am currently in college and own a pair of Martin Logan sl3s. I am in the process of saving for new panels but man are they expensive. I got quoted at 1500 dollars. What other maintenance should I expect while owning these? I’ve heard stators can go bad and of course reforming but what else can go wrong? They are a luxury product and I understand that. However, I don’t want to deal with a money pit. They sound fine now but am experiencing a very slight channel imbalance. This has led me to want to buy new panels. I’m just trying to see if I should buy new panels and keep these for the rest of my life or move towards something more… reliable and cost efficient I guess. They’re my favorite speakers I have ever owned and do not want to part with them but if I have to continue to repair them I am not sure what I’d like to do. Any info and advice would be great! Thanks

Connor

 

[Russr]

Woofers don't always age well, but are not expensive (couple 100 $$$ or so for pretty good ones). A bigger decision will be whether to rejuvenate the crossover (X-Over) circuits, or to go to an Active, bi-amp scenario... not as scary as it sounds, and if you have an amp that can handle the ESLs already, a separate amp (like a Crown with built in digital filtering) can be had used for ~$400.

Some folks go ahead and refurbish the passive internal X-Overs AND actively cross-over the bass, use a separate amp for that, and leave your existing amp handling the Panels via the passive crossover. There are lots of options. The panels are by far the single most expenive part of this, and once you get that over with, you will have speakers worth 5-10 times that in sound quality.

But you DO have to take care of them... smoking is a no-no, occasional cleaning with a vacuum, and possibly covers when not in use... lots of info on this forum about all these things.

Good luck, and congrats on a great pair of speakers.. I love my SL3's!

BTW - what amp are you driving them with currently?

 

[ck102020]

Woofers don't always age well, but are not expensive (couple 100 $$$ or so for pretty good ones). A bigger decision will be whether to rejuvenate the crossover (X-Over) circuits, or to go to an Active, bi-amp scenario... not as scary as it sounds, and if you have an amp that can handle the ESLs already, a separate amp (like a Crown with built in digital filtering) can be had used for ~$400.

Some folks go ahead and refurbish the passive internal X-Overs AND actively cross-over the bass, use a separate amp for that, and leave your existing amp handling the Panels via the passive crossover. There are lots of options. The panels are by far the single most expenive part of this, and once you get that over with, you will have speakers worth 5-10 times that in sound quality.

But you DO have to take care of them... smoking is a no-no, occasional cleaning with a vacuum, and possibly covers when not in use... lots of info on this forum about all these things.

Good luck, and congrats on a great pair of speakers.. I love my SL3's!

BTW - what amp are you driving them with currently?

Thanks for your reply! I vacuum every few months or so. I don’t smoke however I am curious why smoking is so bad for them? Is it the residue from it that damages panels or something else? I currently have an Emotiva Bass xa2 as my power amp. Bass still sounds good and woofers look intact so we are good there. When replacing the panels should I purchase anything else from Martin Logan? I’ve never heard anything about replacing the x-overs, any threads on that? Also, are stator issues common? Thanks again for your reply!!

 

[Robert D]

Thanks for your reply! I vacuum every few months or so. I don’t smoke however I am curious why smoking is so bad for them? Is it the residue from it that damages panels or something else? I currently have an Emotiva Bass xa2 as my power amp. Bass still sounds good and woofers look intact so we are good there. When replacing the panels should I purchase anything else from Martin Logan? I’ve never heard anything about replacing the x-overs, any threads on that? Also, are stator issues common? Thanks again for your reply!!

When you get new panels you'll get new stators too. The panel is treated as one part.

 

[Tmort]

Try swapping speakers in the room to see if the “imbalance” follows the speaker.

 

[Tmort]

You might also try washing the panels if you haven’t tried that. Certainly do that before committing to buying new ones.

 

[Duke]

Have you ever troubleshot this problem before? You need to eliminate everything that could cause the imbalance, one item at a time. It mimics what mechanics sometimes need to do when they manually trouble shoot a problem without diagnostic gear, like a car engine. People on this forum like JonFo can help and I bet a lookup on this forum will find your answer to trouble shoot methodology. I think JonFo owns the SL3 as a center and I read everything of his when I come across a post of his. Outside of this forum, he is well known and his patience is respected. Your problem could be something easy, such as different items behind the speaker, irregular distances on the front or back wall, and unequal toe in. This on top of the usual trouble shooting of the electronics and connections. The speaker needs to be pretty far away from the front wall. Your speaker has about a 12" wide panel so it may be more finicky.

After that is done and you still love the transparency and quickness, save up and buy a panel and new 10" woofers. You do not need the original SL3 woofers. Martin Logan has made several 10" woofers suitable for 4 ohm speakers that might fall within the crossover network parameters of the SL3.

If you ever purchase a 1995 or later vintage SL3 speaker in the future, you should try to visit and demo the speaker in person for functionality. Something I encountered just earlier today ago led me to write you. I just learned a lesson when I let my guard down and did not follow this rule. I just purchased a Descent only for a pristine front cover and decided to use the rest for spare parts which I do not need yet. I have four working Descents stacked in pairs. I noticed one of the lower subs started with a buzzing noise at a low resonance. I determined that the guys who clean my carpets hit it and cracked the plastic mesh support. With that in mind over the last few months, I looked up people who might have a broken Descent to get a good price. Even though I told the seller I only wanted the unit for the front speaker cover and the rest for parts, it arrived in my supplied OEM box with cracked plastic on both vertical sides of the front panel, in worse condition than the damaged one I own. Lesson learned. I should have driven there and took a look.

Please tell us how you struggled and overcame this problem.

 

[Leporello]

Hello everyone!

I am a young Martin Logan owner and an audio enthusiast. I am currently in college and own a pair of Martin Logan sl3s. I am in the process of saving for new panels but man are they expensive. I got quoted at 1500 dollars. What other maintenance should I expect while owning these? I’ve heard stators can go bad and of course reforming but what else can go wrong? They are a luxury product and I understand that. However, I don’t want to deal with a money pit. They sound fine now but am experiencing a very slight channel imbalance. This has led me to want to buy new panels. I’m just trying to see if I should buy new panels and keep these for the rest of my life or move towards something more… reliable and cost efficient I guess. They’re my favorite speakers I have ever owned and do not want to part with them but if I have to continue to repair them I am not sure what I’d like to do. Any info and advice would be great! Thanks

Connor

I wouldn't call them a "money pit" at all. They need to be treated with care and should you need new panels they are quite expensive. Also, a major part of the cost of these speakers. But I wouldn't call new panels "maintenance". You might need them under some circumstances, but not regularly. The only time I have ever replaced a panel, on my Ascents or CLS II's, is when I stupidly climbed a ladder to put up a carpet on the wall for room treatment, miscounted how many steps up I was and fell backwards onto the speaker. Since the person I bought the CLS's from a year or so before had included an unopened set of panels, I only replaced the one. Apparently that is no longer an option. But I love the speakers and would do it again if required, though I'm not expecting that for quite a few more years.

 

[Leporello]

Have you ever troubleshot this problem before? You need to eliminate everything that could cause the imbalance, one item at a time. It mimics what mechanics sometimes need to do when they manually trouble shoot a problem without diagnostic gear, like a car engine. People on this forum like JonFo can help and I bet a lookup on this forum will find your answer to trouble shoot methodology. I think JonFo owns the SL3 as a center and I read everything of his when I come across a post of his. Outside of this forum, he is well known and his patience is respected. Your problem could be something easy, such as different items behind the speaker, irregular distances on the front or back wall, and unequal toe in. This on top of the usual trouble shooting of the electronics and connections. The speaker needs to be pretty far away from the front wall. Your speaker has about a 12" wide panel so it may be more finicky.

After that is done and you still love the transparency and quickness, save up and buy a panel and new 10" woofers. You do not need the original SL3 woofers. Martin Logan has made several 10" woofers suitable for 4 ohm speakers that might fall within the crossover network parameters of the SL3.

If you ever purchase a 1995 or later vintage SL3 speaker in the future, you should try to visit and demo the speaker in person for functionality. Something I encountered just earlier today ago led me to write you. I just learned a lesson when I let my guard down and did not follow this rule. I just purchased a Descent only for a pristine front cover and decided to use the rest for spare parts which I do not need yet. I have four working Descents stacked in pairs. I noticed one of the lower subs started with a buzzing noise at a low resonance. I determined that the guys who clean my carpets hit it and cracked the plastic mesh support. With that in mind over the last few months, I looked up people who might have a broken Descent to get a good price. Even though I told the seller I only wanted the unit for the front speaker cover and the rest for parts, it arrived in my supplied OEM box with cracked plastic on both vertical sides of the front panel, in worse condition than the damaged one I own. Lesson learned. I should have driven there and took a look.

Please tell us how you struggled and overcame this problem.

My Descent i from eBay arrived without the factory shipping carton, and with every one of the tree fasteners holding on the grills broken. Fortunately, no other damage. But these 100+ pound beasts really need special care in packing for shipment.

 

[Duke]

My Descent i from eBay arrived without the factory shipping carton, and with every one of the tree fasteners holding on the grills broken. Fortunately, no other damage. But these 100+ pound beasts really need special care in packing for shipment.

Hey Leporello, I agree with you. You nailed it. I feel it is an end of useful life issue if not shipped in the OEM box. I have four boxes. They are as well built as any I have seen. I like it better than any Krell I have and in my experience the Krell never get broken through shipping abuse. I like companies that service their electronics and set aside for service work.

Two of the Descents were brand new opened once boxes direct shipped by vendor to the dealer and two were second or maybe third shipping event as used speaker purchases. I like the expanding foam upper and lower support bags giving the speaker rigid form fit bespoke packing. That packing bolsters the outside edge the entire top and bottom perimeter with a few inches of vertical form fit sheet plastic cover on the expanding form to the particular box. A true suspension of the speaker to the top and bottom of the box that never a fails under second hand shipping and packing abuse. I think there is a lot of labor to do that work. A reusable box.

 

[Duke]

Never get rid of the box.

 

[Leporello]

I’ve never heard anything about replacing the x-overs, any threads on that?

Replacing crossovers, except in the unlikely event you fry one, comes under the heading of "tweaks", not "maintenance". It's true that electronic, or "active" crossovers have the potential to realize a substantial performance improvement over passive ones. Lots of threads here about doing that. And digital signal processing, or DSP, has the potential to better realize the crossover slopes you're looking for--ideal "Butterworth", "Linkwitz-Reilly", etc.

The most likely culprit for channel imbalance is the room. Stat panels are very unforgiving of room asymmetries due to their coherent radiation pattern. By all means rule that out (by swapping out the speakers and leaving everything else exactly the same, including toe-in) before considering even washing the panels, let alone replacing them. Mark the positions with masking tape to be sure you get the exact same placement. In my room I have ended up with asymmetric placement to correct for image bias problems.

Another thing you can do to rule out the panels and the room, if you have a sound level meter or measuring microphone, is to measure the sound level at very near field--right on the surface of each speaker--at the exact same corresponding point on each panel.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

Basically just panels are the only thing requiring some attention.

If they're super old and dirty washing can bring them back to life, but it might also kill them of they're in bad enough condition so that's a last resort. I believe there's a few places you can send your panels that will "refurbish" them with new coating but I have no experience with any of them.

I've seen power supply boards fail but that's pretty rare and not considered maintenance.