Martin Logan Aeon "Custom 5 way Binding Posts" - can someone please explain?

[soundacct]

Martin Logan Aeon "Custom 5 way Binding Posts" - can someone please explain?

Hi Everyone,

I have been using "5-way" binding posts since my teenage years (car stereo)...well over 20 years. But I can't figure out the binding posts on my ML Aeons - ML's website, and the user manual states that they're "custom 5-way binding posts" I always thought that included using banana plugs...correct?


Specifially, I can't seem to get banana plugs to work - they'll insert into the tops of the binding posts like any other, but won't fit snugly. They just kind of wobble around. I have always just used spade connectors on my ML's because of this, but I have recently scored a bunch of equipment that came with several sets of pretty expensive speaker cables with factory terminated banana plugs and I'd like to try them.

Am I a dummy?

Over the years, I've tried it all...bare wire, pins, bananas, spades, Speakon, boutique, homemade, radio shack, "monster cable", etc... I'm definitely not looking to stir up the old cable debate...I think we're all well versed in the arguments on all sides - I'm just looking to understand how ML designed these things to be used.

All my transistor amps and most of my box speakers have 5 way binding posts, and all my banana plugs fit those - but not my Aeons.

I have searched and searched. I emailed Martin Logan last year, but no response.

can anyone out there tell me how to use banana plugs with these things? is it just a bad design, or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Bernard]

I would never use banana plugs that do not lock, even if they fit okay; I don't trust that they will not get pulled out by mistake. Your best bet is to replace the plugs with spades or lockable bananas (available from Amazon).

It's highly unusual that ML did not respond to you. They're usually great.

 

[soundacct]

I would never use banana plugs that do not lock, even if they fit okay; I don't trust that they will not get pulled out by mistake. Your best bet is to replace the plugs with spades or lockable bananas (available from Amazon).

It's high unusual that ML did not respond to you. They're usually great.

Thanks.
ML did respond with "please refer to your owner's manual" type stuff, but no spefic instructions after a couple of email attempts and pictures, so i gave up. Sorry for being inaccurate.

As stated though, i cant switch plugs in this case as they are factory terminated (and expensive). That would ruin their value, and depending on who you ask, might.degrade their quality as well.

Also, if i cant get regular bananas to fit, i dont see how id get locking bananas to fit, though i do agree with your preference.

Personally, when building stuff i prefer speakon for numerous reasons, but i would prefer not to modify these aeons if possible.

 

[sleepysurf]

How about using a banana to spade adapter, like one of these... http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs...type-Screw-Spade-Banana-Plug/32657883673.html

 

[soundacct]

How about using a banana to spade adapter, like one of these... http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/172173256450?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true, or this http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs...type-Screw-Spade-Banana-Plug/32657883673.html

Thanks for the link, similar ones have come in handy for some of my vintage amps with barrier strips!

Anyhow i am trying to avoid work-arounds.

Have i just misunderstood "5-way" binding post?

More to the point, is anyone successfully using banana plugs without issue? I just find it odd that one of the most respected speaker makers out there would market 5-way binding posts that excludes the use of one of the most common cable termination types...in other words, i was hoping to find out that i was just making a silly rookie mistake and that one of you could steer me right .

So, no banana plugs with these types of 5-way posts?

That begs the question: what are the 5 ways that ML is talking about?

 

[Bernard]

With locking bananas, you turn a screw on the plug after insertion, and the plug expands to grip the socket tightly.

You could of course contact the cable manufacturer to see if they can switch to spades. That way the cable will not lose value. Of course, as with everything else, this would cost money.

Are the plugs soldered on?

 

[sleepysurf]

How about posting a pic of the binding posts in question. Do they look like this?



My Summits (not sure about the Aeon's) use that proprietary design. If that's what the Aeon's have, perhaps the plastic binder is impeding full insertion of the banana plug. If you completely remove the twist binder, you'll have full access to insert the bananas into the hollow binding post. Of note, the latest ML models now use WBT binding posts with more shallow binders.

 

[soundacct]

How about posting a pic of the binding posts in question. Do they look like this?

View attachment 18604

My Summits (not sure about the Aeon's) use that proprietary design. If that's what the Aeon's have, perhaps the plastic binder is impeding full insertion of the banana plug. If you completely remove the twist binder, you'll have full access to insert the bananas into the hollow binding post. Of note, the latest ML models now use WBT binding posts with more shallow binders.

Yes, just like your picture, except that Aeons have two sets of those per speaker (one for the panel, one for the woofer)

It appears to me that many esl martin logans, especially those made around the same time ad mine had binding polsts like that.

 

[soundacct]

With locking bananas, you turn a screw on the plug after insertion, and the plug expands to grip the socket tightly.

You could of course contact the cable manufacturer to see if they can switch to spades. That way the cable will not lose value. Of course, as with everything else, this would cost money.

Are the plugs soldered on?

Thanks for all your suggestions!

It's not so much that I am trying to get this certain cable to work, it's more like "why cant I get it to work?!?!"

After very careful inspection again today, I see that bananas do fit (sort of), but the hole is too shallow for the plug to fit completely inside, the way I am used to seeing on other gear. The plastic part of the turn knob is not in the way in my case, just the hole is too shallow. It does not matter how far turned in or out the thumb screw is, the result is the same.

This makes for a kind of wobbly connection that makes me nervous.

So i guess the answer for me is that , no, bananas wont work on my Aeons as they sit. I'm just baffled by it though so I guess I was just hoping to hear that either it's a known issue and therefore it's time to give up, or that I was just missing something very basic and obvious and the problem is easily solved.

Like many hobbyists, I buy / sell / trade gear from time to time. Well, maybe a bit mor e buying, and a bit less selling and trading lol. Occasionally if I see an entire system for sale, I'll buy the whole thing, then pick and choose what to keep. When it comes to speaker cables, Banana plugs are what i encounter most often, so....

 

[02GF74]

Why are they called 5 way????


Anyway, re banana plugs. There is a replacement for the old style 4 mm banana that is not compatible, i dont offhand know its name.

Reason i was tokd for the change was that the round pins on european ugs were same diameter and was to stop people plugging their speaker cabke into the mains socket... good luck figuring out why!?!!!?!!

 

[DevinZ]

The 5-ways:

Bare wire (in a through hole)
Bare wire (looped around post)
Spades
Pins
Banana Plugs

I'm sorry the banana plugs you have aren't fitting snugly in your Aeon speakers.

MartinLogan custom 5-way binding posts have been manufactured to the same tolerance for 20 years. Banana plugs are intended to attach into the hole at the end of the binding posts.

Being in the ML office, I test fitted a banana plug into an Aeon and it cleanly went in for 3/4-inch (the binding post I tied had a shaft a little over 3/4-inches long). The OD of the banana plug I tested was just over 4mm and had a snug fit.

I've personally found that not all banana plugs are created equal (some just aren't quite snug enough for my taste). That being said, I've used countless banana plugs in my own home systems without much trouble (including my Aeon, Aeon i, and Ascent speakers). The occasional plug needed to be "opened" us a touch with a pair of pliers to assure a snug fit (assuming the design of the binding post allows for this, of course).

 

[timm]

I know this is an old post ... but I got some bananas and was going to test them out on my odysseys.... Like the OP - if all you do ... is take the banana and put it in - without doing anything else.... It seems absurdly shallow... No way does it go in 3/4 in.... Is there something else? Is there something else that impedes the banana - a cap or something that needs removed? Like the OP -- I am also scratching my head and don't want to force anything... any help out there?

 

[twich54]

try peeling it first Tim .............sorry, I couldn't resist !

 

[timm]

try peeling it first Tim .............sorry, I couldn't resist !

LOL - I deserved that.... but didn't you used to have bananas on your spires? I don't recall if it was you... I thought? I would say - they go in - at most 1/2" - and the connector is recessed at that..... My bananas might be 3/4" ... really nice btw on the wireworlds.... they are chunky 'monkey' to fit in with the banana theme.

 

[twich54]

I used both bananas and spades, depended on which amp(s) and wires I was using at the time. No issues with either.

 

[Bernard]

Roberto likes to use a terminator called a Z-Plus, which he has on his DH Labs cable, and mentioned on their web site. A search for it returned pictures of Arnie (the Governator). IIRC, the connector is a hollow tube with a spear-shaped end.