Lose the Box

[horizons59]

After spending a few years with open baffle designs, I went back to Logans for their amazing transparency in the mids and highs. My Aeon's sound much like Quads and I am very happy. However, once you are used to open baffle bass, I do hear the box bass sound on my Aeons. I plugged the ports with foam and that helped but did not eliminate the problem. There is a distinct coloration in the lower part of male voices that is BOXY.

I have to credit Audiocircle and Siegfried Linkwitz for showing the world just how great open baffle bass really is. I am now more convinced than ever that a Martin Logan with open baffle bass would be the finest speaker design in the world.

I removed the rear bass panel of my Aeon's recently and although the bass level dropped, the quality improved 100%. I may create a new rear panel with a grille to let most of the woofer output escape but I still need a place for the rear firing ambiance tweeter. It is going to be an interesting project and I will post pics when I complete this.

 

[JonFo]

The lack of box resonances is definitely one of the hallmarks of the MartinLogan Electrostats, and a big benefit to their sound.

the challenge in the bass is pretty real, and I'd say that only a couple of alignments will do the job:

- Open Box or dipole bass (a la Sigfried Linkwitz) Orion)
- Infinite baffle
- Transmission Line (TL)

All of the above feature low back-pressure designs that reduce box-compression induced distortions.
Of these, my personal favorite is the Infinite baffle, as it preserves the benefit of low back pressure without the challenges of how to manage the rear wave (and attendant cancellations). the problem is it's the least practical, as it requires significant room integration.

Following that is TL's, as they have a lot of befits, but still have a few 'box' induced colorations.

My least favorite is open dipoles, primarily due to the huge challenges of managing the out-of-phase rear wave energy and the cancellations induced at lower frequencies.

But no question that all of these benefit from intrinsically low THD.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Horizon,

With all due respect, I believe ML recognizes compromises are necessary to produce each product, and price point thereof, within their speaker line.

It sounds like a box because it is. However, other members may disagree regarding your assertion that the blend is "distracting".

If you have the opportunity to hear the more recent offerings, much progress has been made to integrate the dynamic driver with the panels.

And some will disagree with this. There are those who prefer the older models and the sonic blend with the panels and bass module.

GG

 

[kach22i]

I do hear the box bass sound on my Aeons. I plugged the ports with foam and that helped but did not eliminate the problem. There is a distinct coloration in the lower part of male voices that is BOXY.

Please list your system and post a picture of your room set up including the wall behind the speakers. I suspect that some acoustic treatments may go a long way to relieving your problem. And an amp which can control the woofer properly can't hurt either.

I like the sealed box of my original Aerius speakers, don't like the ported stuff much. However M/L does a better job than most of fooling me if it's a ported or sealed model.

There is a weirdness to the bass of larger Maggies and the old Craver Amazing speakers (open bass) which I cannot put my finger on. I like a tight controlled bass even if it's constricted compared to the open models.

 

[wallacefl]

You may want to check GR Research OB suwoofer projects under Audio Circle....these look interesting put it is strictly diy with woodworking.

 

[Dan Osib]

I also hear a boxiness in every box speaker and this is why I use the full range electrostat CLS IIz. I would never go back to a box speaker. The boxiness can always be heard during talking or speech during a movie.

 

[kach22i]

You may want to check GR Research OB suwoofer projects under Audio Circle....these look interesting put it is strictly diy with woodworking.

Is this the thread?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54178.0

Gallery Photos here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=user;id=2880