Logan Lust and Budget Limitations. Used vs New

[Paul4223]

I'm hoping you guys can give me some guidance with my quest (no pun). This topic has no doubt been discussed often, but even after extensive research, I'm still a bit confused.

I've been doing a lot of online research as I try to decide what would be the most prudent path for me to acquiring a pair of ML 'stats that would suit my purposes, fit my budget and room, and be essentially worry-free. I do understand that, depending on age and how they've been treated (or mistreated) older Logans often need their panels replaced, making what initially seems like a "good deal" not so good.

I have great tube electronics. My dedicated listening room is 11' wide x 13' deep with the rear wall opening to the living room. Currently I have Magnepan MMG's and Sonus Faber Liuto monitors. Both speakers are fine and I enjoy changing them out periodically. I'm partial to classical, jazz, "world", electronic, and acoustic. About the only music I'm not keen on is very hard rock, rap, metal, etc.

But I keep thinking of Martin Logans and eventually I want to upgrade my MMG's anyway. I auditioned the Ethos and Theos- loved the Ethos but it's far above my pay grade. I also auditioned the ElectroMotion ESL's, which now can be purchased new for under 2K, Which is about what my budget can handle. The other new panel speaker which is a contender for me, is the Magnepan .7, which at about $1400/pair new, and seems like a great deal.

Suggestions? Thanks in advance.

 

[bonzo]

Get Acoustat 2 + 2, used. 1 - 2k, awesome

 

[roberto]

Hola Paul. Gof for the Electromotions. You can´t go wrong there. Its a very well sound balanced overall. They can play all kind of music with excellent results. Using tubes, will drive them very nice and you will be discovering again all your music. Happy listening!

 

[topofroc]

You might want to keep an eye out for an older generation ML, such as the Vista or Vantage. While these speakers are older, I would argue that they have better bass drivers (especially the Vantage) and slightly bigger panels than the Electromotions. They don't come up as often as they used to on A'gon, but can be found often in the $1.5-2.5k range.

These models are a bit older (circa 2007-2009), but should still have another 6-7 years left in them until new panels become a necessity...

 

[roberto]

Yes, the above models are now not in production but are better than the Electromotions, the model to choose is Vantage. They have a built in 200W power amp that handles only the aluminum woofer. Your amp will be driving the stat panels only. Good advice topofrog! Happy listening!

 

[ralflar]

More options for you:

Keep the MMGs for now, add one or two DWM bass panels for $800 new. Later upgrade from MMG to .7 or better. DWMs also work with the larger Maggies.

Get a good used pair of 1.7s now. They cost about the same as new .7s. Add DWMs later, if you feel you need them.

It depends on how happy you are with the Maggie sound. I have 1.6QRs (without DWMs) and Vantages, had both in the same room and swapped them from time to time, like you do with your MMGs and Fabers.

At the end of the day, in my current room, I prefer the Vantages, no doubt about that. As much as I like the Maggies for the things that they do well, the MLs are faster, resolve better, image better, go higher, go lower, have better mids and treble (with my solid state amps). They are more engaging. I doubt 1.7s can be that much better than 1.6s to close this performance gap. As far as Vistas or Electromotions, I have not heard them at home.

 

[Paul4223]

Gentlemen:
Thank you so much for your responses. Kicking myself as I type this but I had a great opportunity to purchase a pair of Vantage about a year ago, for an excellent price, and I did not jump on them fast enough. Sigh....

Eventually, instead, I picked up an inexpensive pair of MMGs. While I do like the MMG's and have a pair of powered subs which I can insert into the system if the mood strikes me, what keeps "haunting me" is the detail that Logans can convey. Ralflar used the word "engaging" and that's exactly what I really am looking for. I've auditioned 1.7's and liked them but did not love them enough to accept their size in my small room.

It's not to say that the Fabers and small Maggies are not engaging, but I suspect that ML's would be even more so. My small listening room feels "intimate" and I love listening to acoustic music, especially live recordings, and feeling the immediacy of the musicians and venue in the room. When I was a kid, I frequented New York jazz clubs and had the pleasure of hearing some greats.

I think the prudent course for me is to be patient and wait for an affordable pair of Vantage or Vista. As good as my tube amps are (Upgraded MFA M120- 4 KT88's per amp) with the Fabers, the MMG's sound better overall, powered by my modest, but excellent NAD C272. I would not sell the Sonus Fabers because I think the Liutos are over-achievers, and are beautiful to look at as well.

I am new to this forum, but must say that the helpful courtesy I find here is exemplary. I have visited two other audio forums and in contrast, ML owners.com is quite refreshing.

Oh, one other thing. To the fellow who suggested Acoustats, thank you, but I don't think their visual presence would be acceptable in our home- no matter how good they sounded. Likewise with Quads.

Thanks again.

 

[Spike]

Welcome to the forum, Paul.
Given that you have a good set of amplifiers, I'd suggest to be patient and look for a pair of Vista. Put the MFA to work on the panels, the NAD on the woofers then sit back and enjoy the music.

 

[Paul4223]

Welcome to the forum, Paul.
Given that you have a good set of amplifiers, I'd suggest to be patient and look for a pair of Vista. Put the MFA to work on the panels, the NAD on the woofers then sit back and enjoy the music.

Thank you, Spike. I see that your speakers are Request. There is a pair for sale locally for about a grand, by the original owners- I'm wondering if this would be something to look into given the size of those speakers and my rather modest listening room. Fortunately, as I've gotten older, I have learned patience. To a point.

 

[Spike]

Hi Paul,
The ReQuests are great speakers. The combination of large panels, 12" woofer and low crossover frequency (~200Hz) imparts tone and presence which IMHO result in a more engaging experience than the newer, smaller panels. There's just something magical about this combination which appeals to me. I tried several times, looking to "upgrade" to the newer speakers, but they just did not impress me much. Don't get me wrong, the newer speakers are quite good, but I have not gotten used to the sound of the internal class-D amplifier driving the woofers. Especially not when compared with my current Levinson amp, driving the 12" woofers. My ReQuests are almost 20 years old, and the original panels are still going strong. For your room dimension, they could work if placed on the 13' side. I feel that along the 11' wall, they may be "squeezed" too much due to the sheer size (width) of these speakers. If the panels are still in good shape, you're in for a real treat with the tubes on the panels and the NAD on the woofers. Good Luck!

 

[Paul4223]

After considerable thought and a few yoga classes, I've decided to be as patient as possible. Which means waiting calmly for the proper pair of previously-owned ML's to come along. Meanwhile, thankfully, my current speakers provide me with great enjoyment. I like the idea of being able to bi-amp Logans, especially since I already have the components. More later, as my journey continues. Thanks again-
Best wishes,
Paul

 

[stuwee]

Welcome Paul!! I'm sure you'll find something great! Keep us updated.

 

[R.I.P]

I'm hoping you guys can give me some guidance with my quest (no pun). This topic has no doubt been discussed often, but even after extensive research, I'm still a bit confused.

I've been doing a lot of online research as I try to decide what would be the most prudent path for me to acquiring a pair of ML 'stats that would suit my purposes, fit my budget and room, and be essentially worry-free. I do understand that, depending on age and how they've been treated (or mistreated) older Logans often need their panels replaced, making what initially seems like a "good deal" not so good.

I have great tube electronics. My dedicated listening room is 11' wide x 13' deep with the rear wall opening to the living room. Currently I have Magnepan MMG's and Sonus Faber Liuto monitors. Both speakers are fine and I enjoy changing them out periodically. I'm partial to classical, jazz, "world", electronic, and acoustic. About the only music I'm not keen on is very hard rock, rap, metal, etc.

But I keep thinking of Martin Logans and eventually I want to upgrade my MMG's anyway. I auditioned the Ethos and Theos- loved the Ethos but it's far above my pay grade. I also auditioned the ElectroMotion ESL's, which now can be purchased new for under 2K, Which is about what my budget can handle. The other new panel speaker which is a contender for me, is the Magnepan .7, which at about $1400/pair new, and seems like a great deal.

Suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Purchase Magnepan 1.7i. Price approx. 2k. If you like the Magnepan sound these may be the right loudspeakers for you.

 

[Paul4223]

Purchase Magnepan 1.7i. Price approx. 2k. If you like the Magnepan sound these may be the right loudspeakers for you.

Thanks, M15. I do like Magnepan but am fascinated by Logans! If I eventually go w/ Maggies, it would be .7 due to room size.

 

[Pneumonic]

Just a thought but ..... would you consider selling your MFA's to facilitate the purchase of a pair of Vantages?

 

[Paul4223]

Just a thought but ..... would you consider selling your MFA's to facilitate the purchase of a pair of Vantages?

Thank you for your suggestion- I have indeed considered selling the mono amps- but never the Luminescence- and decided against it. All my MFA gear has been significantly upgraded by one of the original designers, about 5 years ago. It's simply "too good" to part with.

 

[Paul4223]

Your thoughts on these: Aeon i, Clarity, Aerius i, SL3

These are on Craigslist and all priced within my budget. Since the Aeon i and the Clarity are the newest, I'm especially interested in those. I'd greatly appreciate your perspectives. Again, my listening room is small- 11x13 and I tend to listen at relatively low volume to just about every kind of music except hard rock, rap, metal, etc. I don't expect to hear a symphony orchestra at anywhere close to "real world" levels.

My research indicates that the Aeon i is likely the best choice- I can biamp!

Thanks again.
Paul

 

[Spike]

The most logical choice is to go with the Aeon. However, the nostalgic side of my keeps leaning toward the SL3 (if in good condition), strictly due to my familiarity and connection with the ReQuests/SL3 series. Go for the Aeon!

 

[Paul4223]

The most logical choice is to go with the Aeon. However, the nostalgic side of my keeps leaning toward the SL3 (if in good condition), strictly due to my familiarity and connection with the ReQuests/SL3 series. Go for the Aeon!

Hi Spike:
Having made a number of decisions based on "nostalgia" - which I understand quite clearly- for example, I tend to prefer older cars. However, at this point in my life, I'm inclined to yield to "common sense" - if there indeed is such a thing. SO: this week I will be auditioning the Aeon i's. The seller is into audio, and is biamping the speakers with tubes for the 'stat panel and ss for the woofer. I will be dealing with a kindred spirit.
I will report back later this week. In the meantime, I am trying to temper my increasing enthusiasm. 2016 is promising to be a great year for me.

This forum is wonderful- so refreshing from some other "audiophile" sites.

Thank you, all.

 

[stuwee]

Hello Paul, although I own and love my Summits, I also owned and loved my Sequels from 1988, with new woofers and a big yamaha amp (MX-800U) rated down to 1ohm there was a magic that the newer Summits can't quite match, so the posts about requests/sequels and sl3's are worth looking into ... enjoy the journey my friend, Craig