How does class G do with the Martin Logan electrostats? I think class D is not recommended?
Integrated amp advice for ML
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I like both of them but I don’t think there’s really a fair comparison here the STR is definitely better than the halo integrated. Especially once you throw in the arc room correction. That being said I might prefer the anthem preamp combined with say a JC five stereo amp. I think overall the parasound amplifiers are better. They obviously are an amplifier manufacturer first. The anthem amplifiers are option limited where there is a vast number of Halo amps not to mention just the parasound amps.The arc software however is a game changer. I’ve never been a big DSP fan but at the price point it’s superior to the other options out there.
Another Pass Labs owner chiming in here, although I have the XA 30.8 + XP 22 - roughly for $17K for the three units. I realize this is outside of your budget. But as mentioned above, if you can get your hand on a used INT 25, you will be in audio bliss. Pass and ML make magic. Good luck and let us know.
Yes, that 50w of tube power would be more than adequate, especially with hybrid stats. The bass and very low frequencies are taken care of by the built-in LF amplifiers. Although these are the real low notes, the upper bass and mid-bass is still reproduced by the stat panels.
I think I mentioned the ARC i50 before but thought you weren't interested in tubes. If it does interest you then there's a whole other world of fine quality tube gear that I would very highly recommend:
Conrad johnson CAV45 series 2
ARC i50
VTL IT85
Manley Labs Stingray II
Kondo Audio Note Overture
Amongst many others I've had direct experience with, the ones listed above, are the ones I've either owned or tried on my own ML's and Quad ESL's. The first three are superb value for money and they all have different sonic characters. The CJ CAV45 S2 won an award recently in a unique category of tube integrated amplifiers. The last one, K-AN Overture is one of the best money can buy, pure Class A 32w but is quite pricey!
The choice is yours!
Note: with ARC when it comes to their tube amps, you have to install matched pairs or matched quads of tubes, that's the particular way ARC has designed their gear.
Best, RJ
I think I mentioned the ARC i50 before but thought you weren't interested in tubes. If it does interest you then there's a whole other world of fine quality tube gear that I would very highly recommend:
Conrad johnson CAV45 series 2
ARC i50
VTL IT85
Manley Labs Stingray II
Kondo Audio Note Overture
Amongst many others I've had direct experience with, the ones listed above, are the ones I've either owned or tried on my own ML's and Quad ESL's. The first three are superb value for money and they all have different sonic characters. The CJ CAV45 S2 won an award recently in a unique category of tube integrated amplifiers. The last one, K-AN Overture is one of the best money can buy, pure Class A 32w but is quite pricey!
The choice is yours!
Note: with ARC when it comes to their tube amps, you have to install matched pairs or matched quads of tubes, that's the particular way ARC has designed their gear.
Best, RJ
Big Dog, do you have any direct experience with either the Lamm M1.2 or M2.2 mono blocks driving the ML's? Lamm is one of the manufacturers I'm not sure I have ever seen mentioned in this forum...
Oh yes! Very much so with both the M1.2 and 2.2. Both very highly capable and the M2.2 being the most powerful in monoblock version. It has a higher Class A bias compared to the M1.2, both are quite similar upon first impressions. Then when you turn things up on the M2.2 it really takes off! Both are designed for reactive loads, so ideal on panel type speakers, especially those notorious impedence curves found in full range stats and Apogee's.
Have auditioned these with Apogee Diva's, Maggie MG20, and Quad 2912's when I owned these types of speakers. I think the main reason Lamm is not mentioned much is simply because they're pricey. Their gear in Aus is top dollar, as everything else is in the highend...
Lamm's ML series, 2 and series 3, which are SE tube gear, is a whole other level and real top price. I've not personally tried these at home but had the opportunity of experiencing their tube gear at private demos. Although low in power output compared to their SS counterparts, they can really deliver some serious current & voltage that falls into that Pure Class A category of Single Ended design.
After extensive experience on their SE tube gear, is what motivated me to modify my CJ monoblocks towards a higher Class A bias.
If you can afford Lamm gear, it's pretty much the end game in terms of "fine amplification" it's an extraordinary performance! As I've mentioned on other forums, if not for CJ, since I'm passionate about tubes, I wouldn't hesitate one bit on either Lamm, Kondo Audio Note or VAC, they're all in a class of their own when it comes to top-end tube gear.
Cheers, RJ
Have auditioned these with Apogee Diva's, Maggie MG20, and Quad 2912's when I owned these types of speakers. I think the main reason Lamm is not mentioned much is simply because they're pricey. Their gear in Aus is top dollar, as everything else is in the highend...
Lamm's ML series, 2 and series 3, which are SE tube gear, is a whole other level and real top price. I've not personally tried these at home but had the opportunity of experiencing their tube gear at private demos. Although low in power output compared to their SS counterparts, they can really deliver some serious current & voltage that falls into that Pure Class A category of Single Ended design.
After extensive experience on their SE tube gear, is what motivated me to modify my CJ monoblocks towards a higher Class A bias.
If you can afford Lamm gear, it's pretty much the end game in terms of "fine amplification" it's an extraordinary performance! As I've mentioned on other forums, if not for CJ, since I'm passionate about tubes, I wouldn't hesitate one bit on either Lamm, Kondo Audio Note or VAC, they're all in a class of their own when it comes to top-end tube gear.
Cheers, RJ
RJ, wow, thx for the great feedback! I am going to DM you to avoid hijacking this thread anymore than I already have...
So just checking in... what amplifier did you finally decide on? Or you're not yet decided...?
Have you made a short list of the top three by preference and auditioned them? That would be the best way to go to avoid the confusion, since sky's the limit!
Interested to know, since I previously owned the Ethos.
Best, RJ
The Yamaha is pretty good, in the sense of higher grade materials and connections at the back panel. It has more features and bells & whistles... as is the case with Yamaha's of this nature. However, it still has a coloured sound, which is an attribute towards Yamaha's signature. Some like it and others don't, you'll have to determine that.
Hegel is a level above, not so much on fancy gadgets but build quality, power supply design and parts execution. They don't use too much fancy stuff, it's quite simple, nothing too flashy nor gold plated but the drive and control you get from Hegel is quite good.
If you want to take that a step further, I would very highly recommend the Plinius line of amplifiers. They're made in NZ backed by a highly skilled design team, and they perform extremely well under pressure. Plinius has a range of amplifiers, from integrated to pre-power and they're all made really solid! Something you must try to audition before considering Yamaha or Hegel.
Just my 50cts worth.
Cheers, RJ
Hegel is a level above, not so much on fancy gadgets but build quality, power supply design and parts execution. They don't use too much fancy stuff, it's quite simple, nothing too flashy nor gold plated but the drive and control you get from Hegel is quite good.
If you want to take that a step further, I would very highly recommend the Plinius line of amplifiers. They're made in NZ backed by a highly skilled design team, and they perform extremely well under pressure. Plinius has a range of amplifiers, from integrated to pre-power and they're all made really solid! Something you must try to audition before considering Yamaha or Hegel.
Just my 50cts worth.
Cheers, RJ
Good advice, thank you. The Mark Levinson 5805 also looks interesting
Do you think the Hautonga is on par with the Hegel H390? I already have a blue sound streamer and a decent DAC (Channel islands VDA-2) so the Plinius would be a great deal
jtucker
Well-known member
I've heard the Hegel (but not with ML). I seriously considered it before I got the Pass. Don't think you could go wrong with it.
Yes, the Hautonga is quite good, as is the case with the entire Plinius line. As you go up the model rankings, they deliver some serious current and very stable voltage, so it's not all about power.
Mark Levinson would be another very good choice, no doubt. However, when it comes to service you need to make sure that they can back you up with parts etc., have had a few reports from others who faced service issues. Apart from that, M-Levinson is tops!
I've had no experience with Michi. Since it's part of Rotel, the dealers whom I visit and do business with, don't carry that brand. However, there are MLO forum members here that use Michi with great results. So definitely something to consider. Perhaps they can provide more insight.
If it's possible, you must audition before committing because audio playback systems are all different. Not one single parameter is the same from system to system, let alone the demo room! At least when you can hear it, you will get an idea of how it sounds... hence you may not even like it. If you do, you'll probably walk out with the item. Reviews are not the ultimate test, your ears are! Product reviews can only be taken as guidelines, nothing else!
Only you can determine what you like. It's really that simple.
Hope it goes well.
Cheers, RJ
Mark Levinson would be another very good choice, no doubt. However, when it comes to service you need to make sure that they can back you up with parts etc., have had a few reports from others who faced service issues. Apart from that, M-Levinson is tops!
I've had no experience with Michi. Since it's part of Rotel, the dealers whom I visit and do business with, don't carry that brand. However, there are MLO forum members here that use Michi with great results. So definitely something to consider. Perhaps they can provide more insight.
If it's possible, you must audition before committing because audio playback systems are all different. Not one single parameter is the same from system to system, let alone the demo room! At least when you can hear it, you will get an idea of how it sounds... hence you may not even like it. If you do, you'll probably walk out with the item. Reviews are not the ultimate test, your ears are! Product reviews can only be taken as guidelines, nothing else!
Only you can determine what you like. It's really that simple.
Hope it goes well.
Cheers, RJ
Don Quichotte
Member
I'm happy with my Accuphase E-470 integrated driving my Impression 11A's. Beautiful highs and midrange, with natural color and warmth, and better extended up top compared to my previous amp, the Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary (despite the fact that the AA was doubling power at 4 ohms and was rated down to 2 ohms, while the Accuphase isn't). The bass is not as punchy and muscular as with the Audio Analogue, but the active bass of the Martin Logan's makes it a non-issue. Also, it's very very quiet, both mechanically (no transformer buzz whatsoever) and electrically (no hiss at all, even with my ear against the panel I cannot tell when I'm turning off the amp - after many years of listening to powered studio monitors I'm very happy with the totally black background).
I've also heard a combination of Anthem STR pre / Anthem MCA 525 used as power amp driving some Classic 9's. The sound was rather clean, controlled in the bass but also rather sterile.
Pass Int 250 had plenty of finesse, a refined and competent performer inspiring confidence. However, it seemed a bit rounded around the edges or maybe rounded is too much said, just not as sharp and snappy as the Audio Analogue for example (but more natural and refined) and the macrodynamics were, unexpectedly given it's massive appearance, not it's forte. A "gentle giant" as the dealer called it. Maybe some burning in and a better power cord would have helped, it surely is a very good amplifier.
Huge macrodynamics, bass power, tightness and impact is what I got with a Pass X350.8 driven directly (no preamp) by some digital sources made by MSB and, iirc, Linn. and with Expression 13A's as speakers. I didn't like the room, too little absorption among other things, so I couldn't judge the mids and highs very well.
At a much lower cost, a friends' Exposure 3010 older generation integrated did an unexpectedly good job driving my 11's when I tried for curiosity's sake. Dynamic sound with agile bass, extended highs and a thankfully not sterile midrange. Just grainier, less refined and detailed compared to the above mentioned (much) more expensive alternatives; also, the noise floor is obviously higher. I'd be very curious to hear a top of the line Exposure pre / power (monoblocks) combination.
I've also heard a combination of Anthem STR pre / Anthem MCA 525 used as power amp driving some Classic 9's. The sound was rather clean, controlled in the bass but also rather sterile.
Pass Int 250 had plenty of finesse, a refined and competent performer inspiring confidence. However, it seemed a bit rounded around the edges or maybe rounded is too much said, just not as sharp and snappy as the Audio Analogue for example (but more natural and refined) and the macrodynamics were, unexpectedly given it's massive appearance, not it's forte. A "gentle giant" as the dealer called it. Maybe some burning in and a better power cord would have helped, it surely is a very good amplifier.
Huge macrodynamics, bass power, tightness and impact is what I got with a Pass X350.8 driven directly (no preamp) by some digital sources made by MSB and, iirc, Linn. and with Expression 13A's as speakers. I didn't like the room, too little absorption among other things, so I couldn't judge the mids and highs very well.
At a much lower cost, a friends' Exposure 3010 older generation integrated did an unexpectedly good job driving my 11's when I tried for curiosity's sake. Dynamic sound with agile bass, extended highs and a thankfully not sterile midrange. Just grainier, less refined and detailed compared to the above mentioned (much) more expensive alternatives; also, the noise floor is obviously higher. I'd be very curious to hear a top of the line Exposure pre / power (monoblocks) combination.
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Coda CSiB. I’m a fan…
https://coda.cc/coda-csib-integrated-amplifier
https://coda.cc/coda-csib-integrated-amplifier
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Class D can be absolutely great with MLs. As with any topology it depends on the quality of design. I'm using an Audio Research DSi200 with my Summits and for me it's a very fine pairing. I know that to some people, mentioning "Audio Research" and "Solid State" in the same sentence is a heresy, quite aside from the fact that this is also Class D! (AR apparently don't like to call it that, they refer to it as a "switching design" or something like that, but it amounts to the same). But I find it to be a great match, if I had to find one word to help describe the sound I'd probably go with "finesse". Crucially, it's musically engaging as well as doing a great job with all the audio basics.
I still have yet to "upgrade" as I am quite happy with the current sound even if I don't love the aesthetics. I was thinking again about an integrated and 1 in particular would allow me to try it in house for a 30 day trial. The new Peachtree Carina GaN, looks very interesting. I only need 2 digital inputs 1 for TV return and 1 from my Node 2i. I listen to Tidal as my main source and the Peachtree Dacless design does sound interesting for my set up.
Any thoughts on this unit? I am also considering the Michi X3. I would hope to upgrade my DAC as a part of this upgrade as I listen to 100% digital so that is why both of these units appeal to me.
Any thoughts on this unit? I am also considering the Michi X3. I would hope to upgrade my DAC as a part of this upgrade as I listen to 100% digital so that is why both of these units appeal to me.
