Innersound Kilowatt/ Monoblocks

[Class A]

Just wondering if any of you guys using any of these power amps and thoughts....
Thanks

 

[nsgarch]

Just wondering if any of you guys using any of these power amps and thoughts....Thanks

Roger Sanders will send you a pair to audition --I'm going to try the stereo version, and someone here has them (it?) already. Start a new thread titled: Sanders Sound Systems -- new amps?" He's no longer with Innersound

 

[tonepub]

Got a pair on the way, can't wait!

 

[Burke]

I have the ESL Amplifier (stereo version) and love it.

See this thread for more info Roger's new amps. http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=5189

 

[Joey_V]

I have the ESL Amplifier (stereo version) and love it.

See this thread for more info Roger's new amps. http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=5189

Burke,

You use the ESL amp now? I looked at your system's page but didn't see a pic there.

 

[Rich]

The kilowatt monobloc to which you refer is Rogers' amp design for magnetic speakers. Most folks on this forum are going to prefer the ESL monoblocs or the ESL stereo amplifier. I am using the monoblocs and they are fantastic. Tons of power, incredibly neutral (no sound signature of their own), and perfect reproduction of the signal they are fed. Check out Roger Sanders' new web page to learn more about his current products:

Sanders Sound Systems


Highly Recommended Components!

 

[nsgarch]

Got a pair on the way, can't wait!

And ask him to send you a pair of his ESL speaker cables too. There are better I'm sure, like my Purist Venustas with which I'm currently A-B ing them; but for electrostats, Cardas are probably the absolute worst, what with those "hundreds of golden section strands" . Hope you weren't taken in by that hype!

 

[Burke]

Burke,

You use the ESL amp now? I looked at your system's page but didn't see a pic there.

Yes, I got it a week ago. No pictures yet. The room is currently undergoing renovation, (all wiring to be hidden, and the electronics are moving) will post new pictures after I finish. But you can drop by any time you are in the neighborhood. We will have to get together and A/B the ESL and your Plinius.

 

[Class A]

thanks all for the info.... unfortunatley, we don't have Innersound in the UK. I believe the Innersounds are multi voltage????

 

[Rich]

thanks all for the info.... unfortunatley, we don't have Innersound in the UK. I believe the Innersounds are multi voltage????

I don't understand your post.

As noted above, Innersound is defunct. It is no longer in business. The heart, mind, and soul behind Innersound is a guy named Roger Sanders, who now has a new business making basically the same products, based out of Colorado (Sanders Sound Systems). He doesn't really have a dealer network yet that I am aware of, so the best way to get your questions answered is to phone or email him. You can get his contact info. from going to the website linked above. He will respond promptly to your questions, I am sure.

 

[Bernard]

.............Cardas are probably the absolute worst, what with those "hundreds of golden section strands" . Hope you weren't taken in by that hype!

Neil: Is this statement based upon your listening tests with Cardas, or is it based upon Sanders' white paper?

 

[halo]

I have an Sanders ESL amp that started out as an InnerSound MK I ESL amp. Roger upgraded the amp at my request and when I got it back it had a Sanders logo on it.

I am very happy with it.

Roger's customer service is second to none IMO. :bowdown:

Here is the story on the split with InnerSound: link

Glad to see he landed on his feet and is off to a fresh start

 

[nsgarch]

Neil: Is this statement based upon your listening tests with Cardas, or is it based upon Sanders' white paper?

I have listened to Cardas cables in other systems (lots of people have them) and always found the sound congested (if that conveys anything to you?) They do have a reputation for sounding overly warm and fat, but I think that must be somewhat system dependent. I just remember I always had to strain to understand lyrics -- an automatic deal-breaker for me. BTW, Roger Sanders' simple coax ESL speaker cables are great in that department; actually edging out my Venustas slightly, but they fail badly in providing low-mid/upper-bass energy.

Anyway, when I read about ML's speaker cable design and later, Roger's more detailed explanation, lots of mysteries surrounding electrostat performance began to clear up for me. Meaning I always thought the large variations in sonics people were reporting were due to either the amps they used, or maybe even their hearing (God help us! ) Now I realize how critical the speaker cables are when driving stats. I'm going to see if I can find some capacitance info on Cardas Neutral and Golden reference speaker cable. And I've asked Purist to send me their numbers too.

 

[Bernard]

....... I'm going to see if I can find some capacitance info on Cardas Neutral and Golden reference speaker cable. And I've asked Purist to send me their numbers too.

Per the Cardas website, the figures for Neutral Reference are

Inductance: .034 uh/ft/loop
Capacitance: 117 pf/ft

 

[nsgarch]

Per the Cardas website, the figures for Neutral Reference are

Inductance: .034 uh/ft/loop
Capacitance: 117 pf/ft


The Belden 8237 that Roger uses:

Inductance: .079 uh/ft/linear
Capacitance: 28.5 pf/ft


Purist Provectus (new solid conductor model)
I'll have to call them.

 

[Bernard]

I have listened to Cardas cables in other systems (lots of people have them) and always found the sound congested (if that conveys anything to you?) They do have a reputation for sounding overly warm and fat, but I think that must be somewhat system dependent. .............

I think of "congested" as being the opposite of "warm", so what you are saying in effect is that their reputation is the opposite of what your experience with them has been, if I am reading you correctly.

 

[nsgarch]

To me, "congested" means that detail is all jambed together and you can't quite make anything out -- especially lyrics. As for sonic coloration, I don't like going there but I will say that I never heard anyone (except Cardas ) refer to their cables and IC's as neutral sounding! In perusing their cable specs, it's interesting to note that their better cables have a total strand number around 300 and (probably because of that) very high capacitance, while their three least expensive cables look like they could be OK with stats.

I think of "congested" as being the opposite of "warm", so what you are saying in effect is that their reputation is the opposite of what your experience with them has been, if I am reading you correctly.

 

[Bernard]

To me, "congested" means that detail is all jambed together and you can't quite make anything out -- especially lyrics. ..........

Curious that you say that, as I have no trouble understanding lyrics with my Cardas cables, and I listen to one hell of a lot of female vocals. One thing I definitely noticed was that absorptive room treatment behind the speakers really helps clarify lyrics, violins, etc so was wondering how many of the systems you found congested had any treatment behind the speakers. I am, of course, talking about the only speakers worth listening to - Logans . Could it be that coincidentally the speakers with Cardas cables that you listened to had no room treatment?

I have always revelled in the bell before the finale of "Carmina Burana" (the Ozawa version) that cuts through the very thick orchestral texture and floats free of all the action going on. A congested system would have gobbled up the bell.

 

[nsgarch]

I have always revelled in the bell before the finale of "Carmina Burana" (the Ozawa version) that cuts through the very thick orchestral texture and floats free of all the action going on. A congested system would have gobbled up the bell.

Funny you mention CB. I think I've become obsessed with it over the years Anyway, my system is extremely articulate. And as I said, I was impressed with Roger's coax ability to resolve microdetail/dynamics -- but I have written him about the lack of low-mid/upper-bass. So far, I'm keeping the Purists, but would like to audition their new solid core model.

Your hybrid SL3's are biwired with the Cardas. So the amp and cable are seeing two different kinds of loads (reactive from the woofers and capacitative from the panels) and I honestly have no idea how all those different elements ultimately combine (electrically.) It might be fun to leave the Cardas' hooked up to the bass and put a run of Roger's coax to the panels. He's very happy to send them for demoing.

 

[Bernard]

Funny you mention CB. I think I've become obsessed with it over the years ............

Me too. I have heard it live a few times, and have 3 different recordings - In addition to the Ozawa I have the Kegel and the Tillson-Thomas. So, what do you think of the others in the trilogy ? Perhaps we should discuss this offline, so as to not hijack this thread.