Illusion owners...where do you cross over?

[codesx100]

Funny story...in my previous Focus I blew both woofers. I have no idea how you run a 60hz xo, I assume by not listening beyond -10.

if i went to -10 i'd risk my house falling from the vibrations XD

 

[user 49612]

if i went to -10 i'd risk my house falling from the vibrations XD

Good for you man but maybe I’m deaf. Anything below Reference I can’t really hear and my house gets no where close to falling apart way beyond reference so also have never understood those questions

 

[Russr]

80. When I ran ARC I set a roll off at 60hz in ARC hoping to double protect the speaker.

Sorry - I'm confused... You set a Lower X-over point to protect the speaker?

 

[user 49612]

Sorry - I'm confused... You set a Lower X-over point to protect the speaker?

Processor 80
ARC 60.

Hence, below 60 it should be severely rolled off vs just 80hz xo alone

 

[Robert D]

Processor 80
ARC 60.

Hence, below 60 it should be severely rolled off vs just 80hz xo alone

Setting it at 60 HZ instead of 80 is making it work harder. You're making the center channel go down 20 HZ lower ,and the lower frequencies are where you can damage woofers. You're better setting it at 80 and making the many sub woofers you own do that work.

 

[Robert D]

Processor 80
ARC 60.

Hence, below 60 it should be severely rolled off vs just 80hz xo alone

Well,if the processor is cutting it off at 80, then the ARC on the speaker won't even see a signal below 80 and so it doesn't even matter.

 

[user 49612]

Well,if the processor is cutting it off at 80, then the ARC on the speaker won't even see a signal below 80 and so it doesn't even matter.

Rob you are an awesome guy but both your comments show a lack of understanding

 

[Robert D]

Rob you are an awesome guy but both your comments show a lack of understanding

Am I mistaken, the ARC is on your illusion center channel speaker, or the ARC is on a receiver/ pre-amp? Maybe I was mistaken. I figured you are using another dsp on your preamp and then ARC on your center channel. Like what I'm doing with my bf 210.

 

[user 49612]

Am I mistaken, the ARC is on your illusion center channel speaker, or the ARC is on a receiver/ pre-amp? Maybe I was mistaken. I figured you are using another dsp on your preamp and then ARC on your center channel. Like what I'm doing with my bf 210.

ARC is on the Illusion. I set it to start rolling off at 60hz as a last measure protection

Then in my processor I have it rolled off at 80hz for practical use. Thus, in the event a MASSIVE bass signal between 40-20 hz is tried to be produced by the center channel, the speaker is severely filtered and protected from that.

An 80hz xo does not mean it does not play 79. 79 is almost as loud as 80. 78 almost as loud as 79 etc…

So 80hz xo alone, at my volumes, seemed like not enough protection. Setting ARC to 80hz xo I feared would overly cross the speaker at 80. Thus, my transition and response would have a dip due to this. With the ARC xo lower this can’t happen, but 20-40hz is seeing a bigger bouncer before it tries to destroy my 6.5” woofers

 

[Robert D]

ARC is on the Illusion. I set it to start rolling off at 60hz as a last measure protection

Then in my processor I have it rolled off at 80hz for practical use. Thus, in the event a MASSIVE bass signal between 40-20 hz is tried to be produced by the center channel, the speaker is severely filtered and protected from that.

An 80hz xo does not mean it does not play 79. 79 is almost as loud as 80. 78 almost as loud as 79 etc…

So 80hz xo alone, at my volumes, seemed like not enough protection. Setting ARC to 80hz xo I feared would overly cross the speaker at 80. Thus, my transition and response would have a dip due to this. With the ARC xo lower this can’t happen, but 20-40hz is seeing a bigger bouncer before it tries to destroy my 6.5” woofers

Depends on how fast the signal rolls off, but setting it at 60 HZ certainly does not hurt anything. Setting it at 80 HZ, the same as the processor makes more sense to me.

 

[Robert D]

How fast do most processors cut off the signal on a crossover? Is there much signal left if its cut off at 80 HZ already, and you cut it off again at 60 HZ?

 

[user 49612]

Depends on how fast the signal rolls off, but setting it at 60 HZ certainly does not hurt anything. Setting it at 80 HZ, the same as the processor makes more sense to me.

Again Rob, you and I are good friends.

But my good friend, if you knew how little sense this made you wouldn’t say what you did.

IF ARC does effectively work to start rolling off your speaker you would have a narley valley in your FR because of what you are saying.
My method would only create a near unnoticeable null but remove anything harmful from the center woofers

 

[user 49612]

How fast do most processors cut off the signal on a crossover? Is there much signal left if its cut off at 80 HZ already, and you cut it off again at 60 HZ?

Most 24db/octave. If I understand this right that means this:

You listen at reference. 85db average. 80hz xo is already about 3db down at 80.

You are then 24 db down at 40. So 40hz in the center speaker is playing at about 61db, if the signal was 85.

Let’s say you are like me, a little above reference, in a LOUD movie like the Incredible Hulk with no rumble filter on the disc
105db 30hz

Minus 24db/octave puts it at approx 69db.
Adding a double roll off drops that even further, relieving strain and protecting your drivers

 

[Robert D]

Again Rob, you and I are good friends.

But my good friend, if you knew how little sense this made you wouldn’t say what you did.

IF ARC does effectively work to start rolling off your speaker you would have a narley valley in your FR because of what you are saying.
My method would only create a near unnoticeable null but remove anything harmful from the center woofers

My dear fellow, you are so intelligent! Thank you for your comment.

 

[user 49612]

My dear fellow, you are so intelligent! Thank you for your comment.

Ok I’m being slow. If that was sarcastic Rob I told you we are friends. I’m not bashing you but you are not on board with how things actually work

And also be careful I may have gotten numbed wrong in that math equation. But the point stands for sure

 

[msimanyi]

I didn't think Rob was being sarcastic, but perhaps I misunderstood.

If you're on a 24 db/octave crossover slope in your processor, then I would think you'd be quite safe... even without your intelligent - I agree with Rob! - application of the 60 Hz ARC software / speaker crossover "backup" to your processor setup. (You *are* setting the center channel to Small at your processor, correct? Could someone else in the household have changed it?)

I'm honestly baffled as to how the woofers could have failed. You mention "reference" playback levels, but I don't know if you identified the actual dB readings. Are you playing peaks at Dolby's 105 dB reference level at the MLP? Or do you mean you're playing back at 0 on your volume control? If that's really 105 dB, I would think the amp driving those woofers - as engineered and provided by ML - shouldn't be clipping at that level. (I assume you aren't sitting 50' back from the Illusion...)

 

[Robert D]

I agree, it's a mystery as to why those woofers blew.

 

[user 49612]

I didn't think Rob was being sarcastic, but perhaps I misunderstood.

If you're on a 24 db/octave crossover slope in your processor, then I would think you'd be quite safe... even without your intelligent - I agree with Rob! - application of the 60 Hz ARC software / speaker crossover "backup" to your processor setup. (You *are* setting the center channel to Small at your processor, correct? Could someone else in the household have changed it?)

I'm honestly baffled as to how the woofers could have failed. You mention "reference" playback levels, but I don't know if you identified the actual dB readings. Are you playing peaks at Dolby's 105 dB reference level at the MLP? Or do you mean you're playing back at 0 on your volume control? If that's really 105 dB, I would think the amp driving those woofers - as engineered and provided by ML - shouldn't be clipping at that level. (I assume you aren't sitting 50' back from the Illusion...)

I hope so. I really respect Rob...
anyway

105db+ peaks. Bass 120-130.

I also blew a tweeter (replacing shortly)
I will say examining the damaged speaker showed one edge of the spider came unglued and was causing audible distortion. A little glue and I bet the woofer would work good as new. If it was electronic it would likely blow all 4, and volume same thing, all 4. I think this was manufacture defect and after enough of my blasting I found the limit

 

[msimanyi]

I hope so. I really respect Rob...
anyway

105db+ peaks. Bass 120-130.

I also blew a tweeter (replacing shortly)
I will say examining the damaged speaker showed one edge of the spider came unglued and was causing audible distortion. A little glue and I bet the woofer would work good as new. If it was electronic it would likely blow all 4, and volume same thing, all 4. I think this was manufacture defect and after enough of my blasting I found the limit

Got it - so reference is an actual 105dB+. Thanks for confirming.

You blew a tweeter in the Illusion as well?

Agreed about the possibility of faulty construction on the woofers, but if that tweeter is on the Illusion I'm curious what the amp is in front of it.

Edit: also, how large is your room volume?

 

[user 49612]

Got it - so reference is an actual 105dB+. Thanks for confirming.

You blew a tweeter in the Illusion as well?

Agreed about the possibility of faulty construction on the woofers, but if that tweeter is on the Illusion I'm curious what the amp is in front of it.

Edit: also, how large is your room volume?

Something. It’s doesn’t play as high and crackles.
1.25KW but I’m nowhere near 1200 watts. Typically 120+ at the peaks

It’s a good size but I sit fairly close