Man, you made me doubt! I've been looking at the XLS series as there are lot's of positive reviews on Youtube about it. I see you've got the XLI series. I wasn't familiar with those and from what I can see it's a class AB amp with a massive toroidal transformer and big capacitor bank. The XLS series are class D amps with switched mode power supplies. Now there's something to say for both but what made you pick the XLI over the XLS series? Best of both worlds would be to have a class D amp with the clean power of a toroidal transformer. I wonder if Crown sells something like that...
I might do the weird thing! Crown amp for my L/R speakers.
- Thread starter spkrdctr
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
Russr
Well-known member
@spkrdctr - Do you leave the Crown powered on the whole time? Sounds like a great setup, and glad you're getting such enjoyment out of it (with a little snicker about "value cables" and such... but not here to talk about the law of diminishing returns on fancy cables and schtuff)..
BUT: The only thing I'd try not to do, is have other components sitting on top of the amp, especially if you power it off when not in use. In my opinion, heating/cooling cycles are the major killer of electronic components - it's tough enough figuring out what's best for the amp, but you're exposing the receiver and all the other gear higher up "the stack" to the same (if slightly less intense) issue if temperature swings.
Glad you're getting such a kick out of some excellent, value-based gear! Enjoy!
Russ
BUT: The only thing I'd try not to do, is have other components sitting on top of the amp, especially if you power it off when not in use. In my opinion, heating/cooling cycles are the major killer of electronic components - it's tough enough figuring out what's best for the amp, but you're exposing the receiver and all the other gear higher up "the stack" to the same (if slightly less intense) issue if temperature swings.
Glad you're getting such a kick out of some excellent, value-based gear! Enjoy!
Russ
spkrdctr
Well-known member
Russ, I thought about which amp I should buy and I knew no matter what, the Class A/B amp would be well sorted and the technology has been around forever. It puts out nice clean signals, has high slew rate devices and no noise in my system. The Class D amps are really coming on now and are getting every bit as good as Class A/B. from what I have read. But they have not been around all that long in the high fidelity world. I have not been able to listen to a higher end Class D like a PS Audio unit. But, of course I have heard tons of Class A/B. So I went with what I knew would work very, very well. Plus to get the power level and great specs I would have to pay almost double for a "possibly" lower fidelity Class D amp. But I do not know if it is lower fidelity to my ears, as I haven't listened to a Crown Class D amp. If the Crown Class D amps are really nice they would be so much easier to move around as the weight would be half to less than half of the Class A/B. Class D would be lightweight and not really require any cooling unless driven ridiculously hard. So, the whole adventure didn't really cost me much and worked out very well. I have new interconnects coming as the ones I'm using now are really a .25 cent pair I had from some long ago project.
I see where you're coming from. Personally most of my experience is with class AB as well. Having said that, last year after getting my ESL-X's I've found that my Sherwood Newcastle a-965 while sounding great at lower volumes, at higher volume would go into clipping. Even Bi-amping didn't resolve that. So after some research I've bought a set of IcePower 125ASX2 class D modules cheaply, CNCed some enclosures for them and have been running them in a bi-amped setup with one module per speaker with the A-965 powering my surround stage. It's my first experience and I like how they sound, very clear, very transparent and they match very well with my DIY tube amplifier and my Marantz SR7015. There's just a slight roll-off in the highs and with the Marantz voices sound a bit harsh sometimes.
But then just when I thought I had it all sorted, one of my friends bought a set of ESL's and powered them with a DIY power amp with Hypex NC400 modules connected to a Marantz SR6015. Hearing his setup compared to mine is as if a veil is lifted. Stereo image is much wider and the overall sound is much more defined with a punchy but controlled bass. There’s no roll-off in the highs and voices are buttery smooth. So it's clear to me that these things need power, and lots of it. And while I like the clarity and brightness of class D amps, I don't like the fact that the XLS series has switched mode power supplies in them as it's almost a guarantee for audible distortions. I guess I should just try one. Consumer laws in Europe are quite relaxed in that you can order something online and simply return it within 14 days for a full refund if you don’t like it. I think I’ll start with a XLS 1502. Since it’s pretty lightweight it would be easier to ship it back if it sounds bad.
But then just when I thought I had it all sorted, one of my friends bought a set of ESL's and powered them with a DIY power amp with Hypex NC400 modules connected to a Marantz SR6015. Hearing his setup compared to mine is as if a veil is lifted. Stereo image is much wider and the overall sound is much more defined with a punchy but controlled bass. There’s no roll-off in the highs and voices are buttery smooth. So it's clear to me that these things need power, and lots of it. And while I like the clarity and brightness of class D amps, I don't like the fact that the XLS series has switched mode power supplies in them as it's almost a guarantee for audible distortions. I guess I should just try one. Consumer laws in Europe are quite relaxed in that you can order something online and simply return it within 14 days for a full refund if you don’t like it. I think I’ll start with a XLS 1502. Since it’s pretty lightweight it would be easier to ship it back if it sounds bad.
spkrdctr
Well-known member
Ok, here are the photos of a very inexpensive system in a 1 bedroom apartment. I have a wife that is NOT approving of my sound system. She would be very happy with just the sound bar. But, she is letting me be me. The first pic shows the crown amp at the bottom underneath the Yamaha receiver. You can see the ESL speakers that play louder than I can listen to without hearing damage or being evicted! You will also see the ML 700X sub that I got for free. I have it EQ'ed to hit 25hz which is all it can do. You can also see my less than $100 chinese special center channel below the tv. I tested (as I always do) the center channel by itself and it fills the apartment easily with fairly loud sound. My rear surrounds are $30 or $40 4 inch (50hz to 16khz) Pyle surrounds. They will also fill the apartment loudly all by themselves. So, I am not volume limited in any way. I do music listening with 2.1 channel only on "Pure Direct" through the Yamaha.
The next photo shows my custom room treatments which do double duty as bins holding the wife's holiday decorations etc for all holidays. The last photo shows the other wall and its custom treatment of the cat bed (which he appropriated!) chairs and the half wall to the kitchen. Also it is 100% carpeted with cloth furniture for the listening positions and more back wall treatments. I believe the free custom room treatments really are what make my system sound so good.
That's my system. Oh and you will notice the unconventional toe in of the ESL's. It makes the sweet spot center image at the TV. I have a great left/right and center soundstage but almost zero depth. The sacrifice for apartment living. No musicians seem to be behind the tv or the wall. I should add up what I have in the system as it is not a lot of money compared to most people who are into audio. I feel I have tweaked this till it sounds very good for a small apartment setup. Oh, and I'm adding a 31 band stereo EQ tomorrow too. That will finish it.
The next photo shows my custom room treatments which do double duty as bins holding the wife's holiday decorations etc for all holidays. The last photo shows the other wall and its custom treatment of the cat bed (which he appropriated!) chairs and the half wall to the kitchen. Also it is 100% carpeted with cloth furniture for the listening positions and more back wall treatments. I believe the free custom room treatments really are what make my system sound so good.
That's my system. Oh and you will notice the unconventional toe in of the ESL's. It makes the sweet spot center image at the TV. I have a great left/right and center soundstage but almost zero depth. The sacrifice for apartment living. No musicians seem to be behind the tv or the wall. I should add up what I have in the system as it is not a lot of money compared to most people who are into audio. I feel I have tweaked this till it sounds very good for a small apartment setup. Oh, and I'm adding a 31 band stereo EQ tomorrow too. That will finish it.
Attachments
Does your receiver support virtual/phantom center? If it does I guarantee you a virtual center will sound far better than that soundbar you're using. The only downside will be that off-axis listeners will hear the center coming from the side closer to them.
My experience with ESL’s is that they place voices right in the center regardless of any tricks a receiver does. My wife is still convinced that the center speaker of my surround system is playing the voices while listening to stereo tracks ;-)
Well, I see she has room to set up her knick knacks, so its only fair you have room for yours! I like your set up, its perfect for an apartment. I hope you have nice neighbors. I still remember the cops showing up at my door when I played my stereo too loud in an apartment.
spkrdctr
Well-known member
I have just tweaked in my 31 band equalizer and I am convinced it is the single best piece of equipment for inexpensively tuning to the room. I leveled out my huge peaks and have a pretty flat sweep now. Since the couple of pretty big peaks (+12 to 15 db) are gone I can actually listen at lower volume since I hear all the frequencies at pretty much the same level. It was that when I turned it down I lost a big part of the music and got two peaks worth of sound which sounded terrible. The new equalizer works so much better than the Yamaha receiver EQ. I flattened the Yamaha EQ and now just have the Big EQ handling it. If this system gets any better I will have to start booking live concerts in my apartment! 
Oh, a huge shout out to JonFO as he turned me on to a great Iphone spectrum analyzer. Worth its weight in gold. That was the one serious piece I have been missing to do some room tuning from my listening position. I like the fact that he can do both high dollar recommendations and also inexpensive recommendations on how to get things done. Well done JonFo!
Oh, a huge shout out to JonFO as he turned me on to a great Iphone spectrum analyzer. Worth its weight in gold. That was the one serious piece I have been missing to do some room tuning from my listening position. I like the fact that he can do both high dollar recommendations and also inexpensive recommendations on how to get things done. Well done JonFo!
spkrdctr
Well-known member
Same here. With my unconventional toe in, it seems like I have the center playing when it's just the two ESL's and the sub.
Sounds interesting. What's the name of the app?
spkrdctr
Well-known member
Audiotools db sound and audio in the Iphone app store.
spkrdctr
Well-known member
REW and UMIK is the real way to go. I am using the Iphone to kinda of, sort of, in a way, with one eye closed and standing on one foot, try to accomplish about half of REW. But it really did show a major peak I have from 70 to 125hz from my noise floor level. When my A/C kicks on I get a nice 125hz spike. I now need a CD that does sweeps and tones. Anyone have any recommendations?
Russr
Well-known member
There are several tone generator apps... use cables instead of BT and it should be good enough to expose any issues. Some app names:
Frequency Generator
(there were more, but I removed them, sorry!)
Chops
Well-known member
There are a few free iPhone/Android apps that do pink noise and white noise as well as signal generators, both sinewave and square wave.
Chops
Well-known member
Nice little setup, and nice little apartment. Reminds me of the little 900 sq ft 2 bed apartment we had in St Pete several years back. Man, I really miss living in St Pete.
And yes, cats and cat beds make good room acoustic treatments.
spkrdctr
Well-known member
Thanks for the ideas guys!
Chops
Well-known member
Brightness is simply the tuning (or the lack of) of the particular amp. Quality Class D amps are not "bright". Then again, that goes for any Class amp. It's all down to the voicing. The little NuPrime STA 9 amps that I'm using are in no way bright. They're actually quite smooth and refined. However, in my current setup, I'm not using them on the fullrange drivers.
