How satisfied are you with your Martin Logan system for 2ch listening?

[Pcar928fan]

I think a $3K vinyl rig can get me closer to ideal.. rather than spending $3K on a digital source, from what I heard, there's more bang for the buck with vinyl. Atleast to my ears, there was.

INTERESTIN! Thanks for the thoughts Joey! I got my REALLY GOOD and REALLY NEW LP of Holst The Planets today and will A/B that to my (not so good but very effecitve) Pioneer Elite CD changer. My allergies are messing with me so I will probably have to A/B those again later outside my allergy season. I'll let you know what I think.

 

[Joey_V]

INTERESTIN! Thanks for the thoughts Joey! I got my REALLY GOOD and REALLY NEW LP of Holst The Planets today and will A/B that to my (not so good but very effecitve) Pioneer Elite CD changer. My allergies are messing with me so I will probably have to A/B those again later outside my allergy season. I'll let you know what I think.

Definitely James! I always like to hear what you have to say about gear....

Looking forward to it... remember, keep the volumes equal and switch in the middle of songs to catch the differences more apparently. But, if the vinyl truly bests the digital source in your case, there should be no need to even switch quickly to hear the difference... the difference should be apparent enough in it of itself.

 

[DTB300]

Vinyl, is not really, BETTER, just different... Again it will depend on what you are looking to spend. I think $750 on a CD player vs $3000 on a CD player is probably pretty hard to hear...I venture a guess I would not hear the difference AT ALL

Good point on Vinyl vs Digital - Different - each has their plus and minues.

In regards to the $750 vs $3000 CD Player - My guess is you have not heard a modified player - which can easily be purchased for $3k. The differences are dramatic between a stock $750 player and a modified $3k player. Heck there is even differences between a stock $3k player and a modified $3k player.

Dan

 

[Charliemike]

Ok - since some of us have strayed - I will too... How in the heck can you spend some of the dough you folks have spent and rate them a 7??? That is a C in school.... A Summit system a 'C'... Joey? Maybe I missed it - but good god man - I could never give my system that kind of grade after spending that kind of moolah. Doing the critical listening prior to purchasing etc.... You guys are WAY too critical I'm giving all of your systems a 9. There I said it!!! :haha1:

Remember when you took that course in college where the professor said, "No one has ever finished with an A in my course"?

So you bust your ass harder than you can ever imagine and get a 85?

And that's a solid B but it's still a 85 out of 100.

That's (in my opinion) what's going on here. Joey rates his system a 7 because a 10 is sonic nirvana and almost impossible to achieve.

 

[jtwrace]

Good point on Vinyl vs Digital - Different - each has their plus and minues.

In regards to the $750 vs $3000 CD Player - My guess is you have not heard a modified player - which can easily be purchased for $3k. The differences are dramatic between a stock $750 player and a modified $3k player. Heck there is even differences between a stock $3k player and a modified $3k player.

Dan

There is a big differences between $750 vs $3000 Players....IMO, it goes back to YOUR ears and wallet. Most of the time the difference to many is not worth the gain. It's all relative to the person.

 

[DTB300]

There is a big differences between $750 vs $3000 Players....IMO, it goes back to YOUR ears and wallet. Most of the time the difference to many is not worth the gain. It's all relative to the person.

Cost vs performance is an issue for any component in our system.

 

[TomDac]

TomDac's entry.

I was holding off until my new amp arrived. Here goes:

1. Name, Version & Date TomDac - Version 2.5* Date: 03-18-07

2. 2-ch Setup Sony DVP-NC80V DVD/CD/SACD Player/Changer feeding into Denon AVR4800 via Acoustic Research optical cable for regular CD and AudioQuest King Cobra ICs for SACD. Squeezebox into Denon 4800 via AudioQuest King Cobra ICs.
Denon Pre-outs via AudioQuest King Cobra to Pass Labs X250 amplifier then out to MartinLogan reQuests via Monster M1 Sonic Reference cables.

3. Overall Satisfaction Rating 8.5.

4. Comments Sonic Nirvana for me is not having to get my fat ass off the sofa to put a different CD in the changer, therefore the Squeezebox while technically not as sonically pure as direct from CD helps bring my system up to an 8.5. Since putting the Pass X250 in my setup (only yesterday), I would say that prior to this, my system was a 5. Of course I never knew how much difference a high end amplifier could make, so I probably would've said my system was a solid 7.

5. Upgrades planned
My upgrade plan is to get a super hi-end HT processor that will do 2-channel very very well. Also down the road a SACD/CD/DVD/Blue-Ray changer.



* My version is 2.5 because this being the MLC the speakers are what's key in my system, it's my 2nd set of Logans (hence the "2") and I've changeds amps/CD players, etc. 5 times since I started this in 1987.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I have to agree there is a difference with respect to cost and performance. I think once you get into the $2k and above range the differences are subtle.

Now when you compare a $750 player to a modded one of $3k yes there can be a large difference. With players retailing above the $2k mark you do see subtle differences whether they are audible or not. For example, the quality of components inside may or may not affect the sound of the unit but actually increase the life and consistency of the unit.

Unfortunately, this does fall in to the "laws of diminishing returns" and there has to be a conscious choice as to whether it is "worth it" to the user. In my case, it was worth the expense for a more expensive player. I did get the ability of SACD but I also gained the sonic quality I had with the DAC.

Just my opinion

Jeff

 

[Joey_V]

There is a big differences between $750 vs $3000 Players....IMO, it goes back to YOUR ears and wallet. Most of the time the difference to many is not worth the gain. It's all relative to the person.

Definitely agree, Jason.

I heard the Rega Apollo, the wonderplayer of this year, which retails at $1K. I also heard the lowest end Naim CDP C5, about $1500. The difference was so apparent in the vocal focus itself that it was a no brainer for me if I were to buy a cdp that day.. the Naim was just so much better - almost like AM vs FM radio. It was a straight up A/B demo of the same CD.

Now, I also heard the $20K Naim CDP C555 with powersupply, Naim's top of the line, but it wasn't in A/B and it wasn't through the same Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor speakers but through a pair of the Sonus Faber Amati Anniversarios... and I am not at liberty to say whether the difference I heard were because of the electronics, the speakers, or the room.

In any case, there are differences that are readily apparent in many products and in the ways they implement said topologies and designs. The question really is, whether you have a system that can magnify the stated differences and whether your ears are hearing enough to convince your wallet to open up.

 

[Joey_V]

I have to agree there is a difference with respect to cost and performance. I think once you get into the $2k and above range the differences are subtle.

Not completely sure if I can completely agree Jeff.

From my experience atleast, the difference between the top end Classe CDP-202 vs the Ayre C5xe ($5K and $6K respectively) was very apparent in the vocal focus and overall blackness of the background. The difference was far more than their price delta suggested.

I think it's very difficult to say where the law of diminishing returns starts, but I think in my opinion, I would have to say anything under $10K is fair game. Anything above is a wash... probably.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Joey,
I was trying to be kind. It all depends on two factors, can one hear the difference and can one afford that difference. In my case yes I can hear the difference and the Krell is not a cheap piece of equipment. Could I afford it, well not really but sometimes deals come along you should not pass up and this was one of those.

In comparison to the Rotel 1072 it is a step up. It has different DAC's, transport and isolated PS and plays SACD's for starters.

Now I have to sell my Rotel.


Jeff

 

[kcl]

I think it's very difficult to say where the law of diminishing returns starts, but I think in my opinion, I would have to say anything under $10K is fair game. Anything above is a wash... probably.

The rub on The Law of Diminishing Returns is both an individual's definition of "return" for the given components, as well as when they're evaluating. For example, although I love the sound I get from high-end equipment (e.g., my summits), I don't consider myself an audiophile per se. If I had to be honest, there's probably an embarrassing bit of ego in my owning the quality of equipment that I have. (With that said, though, there's no way I'd go back. ) What I'm trying to say, probably poorly, is that $10k number for Joey is probably $2k for me on CD players, while we're probably closer to agreement on the $ number for speakers. Then there's the time component. I'm absolutely certain that there's no way I would have considered paying what I have for my components twenty years ago. (Heck, the summits, pre-pro and amp I just bought cost more than our first house 35 years ago! ) On the other hand, its possible that in the future I'll get to the same numbers as Joey on CD players. The tricky part in all of this is figuring out the "diminishing returns" level for you.

 

[lugano]

The tricky part in all of this is figuring out the "diminishing returns" level for you.

For me, the tricky part - and also the most rewarding one - is to create diamonds out of coal. To maximize the returns on a budget as small as possible, without incurring in any obvious limitations. I will always seek for a killer sound coming out from combinations of gear, cabling, positioning and I will also pay attention to the aestethics, too. We already pay these things at least double so much in Europe as you do in the US....

 

[DTB300]

For me, the tricky part - and also the most rewarding one - is to create diamonds out of coal. To maximize the returns on a budget as small as possible, without incurring in any obvious limitations.

Agreed!!!

System synergy is the most important factor in putting together a system, not the cost of the items.

I pride myself in having a real nice sounding system, but having paid some very frugal prices for it. Out of all the components in my system, there are only 2 which I have paid almost MSRP for, all the others are in the 1/3 of MSRP or a little higher.

Dan

 

[Joey_V]

Joey,
I was trying to be kind.
Jeff

Jeff,

I was trying to be kind too.. hope you didnt take my post the wrong way. Remember, I got mucho respect for you to post anything but.

Joey :cheers:

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Joey,

Not a problem at all. No ruffled feathers. I think you can buy a very good CD for around $2k. Now having said that mine is $4k new so I may be a hypocrite but then again I bought it used.

...............and of course no matter what you have or like to have if your room is like a gymnasium it really won't matter until you fix that component too.

You know us Sunday working buddies have to stick together.

Jeff

 

[Joey_V]

Joey,

Not a problem at all. No ruffled feathers. I think you can buy a very good CD for around $2k. Now having said that mine is $4k new so I may be a hypocrite but then again I bought it used.

...............and of course no matter what you have or like to have if your room is like a gymnasium it really won't matter until you fix that component too.

You know us Sunday working buddies have to stick together.

Jeff

Jeff,

I will agree with you, there are great $2K players out there... btw, love your SACD Standard in silvah colah, Mr. Hypocrite!!! :cheers:

And, touche on the room comment.

And, yes, we should stick together!

Joey

 

[twich54]

You know us Sunday working buddies have to stick together.Jeff

just shoveled 4" of sleet from my driveway, does that qualify for "Sunday" work ??

 

[Brad225]

That qualifies as above and beyond the call of work. I remember those days well.
My friend, you now deserve a glass of your favorite adult beverage a couple of asprin put your feet up and listen to some music.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

well it is a bit cooler here today about 77.