How Great is the Sanders Magtech?
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robertawillisjr
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If you have an iPad or iPhone go to http://www.studiosixdigital.com/audiotools.html. The app is quite nice with lots of options ($$$ extra) but the company also has sound hardware tools available.
Robert, these apps look awfully attractive, but the mic response falls off sharply below 200Hz, and I've seen no data on accuracy (± x dB) above that figure. Do you know if/how LF performance is compensated or the overall accuracy? Thanks!
robertawillisjr
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No. I use them as an amateur would: To get things in the ballpark. The apps are better (for my use) than the RS Meter and since I gave up laptops they work well for me. I have:
1. All of the SPL tools. Which are great, especially the SPL Dashboard
2. The RTA tool. Which helped me find hot spots.
3. Level, Audio Scope and VU meter in the Line Input group.
4. Polarity and Delay Finder in the Speakers group. I am still getting a handle on these.
3. All but the Surround Generator in the Utilities group
4. Everything in the Settings group.
These have generally been helpful and time savers. Of course the iPad microphone is an impediment but the folks at Audio Tool are constantly trying to overcome its limitations. There is a good discussion somewhere in the site.
1. All of the SPL tools. Which are great, especially the SPL Dashboard
2. The RTA tool. Which helped me find hot spots.
3. Level, Audio Scope and VU meter in the Line Input group.
4. Polarity and Delay Finder in the Speakers group. I am still getting a handle on these.
3. All but the Surround Generator in the Utilities group
4. Everything in the Settings group.
These have generally been helpful and time savers. Of course the iPad microphone is an impediment but the folks at Audio Tool are constantly trying to overcome its limitations. There is a good discussion somewhere in the site.
User211
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No, it won't - it doesn't have a linear frequency response. What you want, minimally, is one of these: Behringer ECM 8000
And this, to connect your mic to your computer: http://www.amazon.com/MXL-MICMATEC-Preamp-Condenser-Microphones/dp/B000VZ8WC2/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_b
Plus some software like HolmImpulse, which is free, to do FR checks. I think Dayton do a package Ken recommends.
I've had the iPhone AudioTools app for quite some time and it is quite good. However, you do need to buy the mic they offer, as the software compensation isn't great - you'll get different results to using the Behringer, which is inherently linear.
Pete, be sure you understand the pros and cons of the different approaches to speaker/room measurement before you jump into the pool.
The most comprehensive and flexible tools with which I'm familiar (REW, ARTA) aren't "hook up and go". They require a fair bit of learning and commitment which frustrates many and may just turn you off to the whole process. Dunno if HolmImpusle falls into that category - Does it, Justin? These are the tools which require purchase of separate mic and preamp. If you go this route, by far the most popular mic choice is the Dayton EMM 6, calibrated by Cross Spectrum Labs. Get the "Basic Plus" version. Lots of discussion over @ Home Theater Shack on this approach, though it centers on using the REW software.
If, OTOH, you're after a simpler, "anyone can use it in 5 minutes" approach, I'd recommend either the XTZ or the Dayton Omnimic. Everything you need is included and there are several owners here who can help you with measurements.
User211
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HolmImpulse was recommended to me by a pro acoustician. I think it is pretty simple, but that doesn't mean someone else will think so, especially without an engineering background. It is certainly easy enough to tell someone how to use it, and it is free, so no damage done.
Cheap is always good, and HolmImpulse does the job well for nothing. But it is important for anyone to try to read up on the subject and understand what they are doing. I'm no expert, though - I think you've experimented more, Ken.
Cheap is always good, and HolmImpulse does the job well for nothing. But it is important for anyone to try to read up on the subject and understand what they are doing. I'm no expert, though - I think you've experimented more, Ken.
Justin, I just took a quick look @ Holmimpulse and it appears to be geared primarily to DIY speaker folks. It measures frequency response, which is good, as well as impulse response, which has limited use for our general purposes. I've seen it used effectively to time-align subs and mains using delay settings in an AVR, but that won't help those with all-analog gear. What Holm doesn't appear to have is the ability to measure bass decay, which is IMHO mandatory, or Envelope Time Curve (ETC), a useful advanced feature.
All in all, I think the best choices would be:
All three use a PC interface.
All in all, I think the best choices would be:
- REW - roughly $150-200 + steep learning curve, great support forum @ HTS
- XTZ/Omnimic - $210-330, depending on model, which provide all the basic functions and are dirt simple to use
All three use a PC interface.
User211
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Yup - I simply used it to measure the effect of swapping various different 211 valves on overall system frequency response, using the quoted Behringer mic. This was to resolve a discussion that tube swapping really does make a real difference. It is a good starter to see if you want to pursue other venues. HolmImpulse works fine with a USB mic input, hence the above (cheap) recommendations.
So, Necro-pops came over for the A/B Magtech/Carver debate. The statement was this: If I was to choose between Carver and Magtech it would be Magtech. faster, more detailed, more musical and powerful. This amp will be at his house next week for in house A/Bing. Oh the fun of having multiple amps at once, no more theory, just listening!
tsv_1
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Hi Pete and everyone... been traveling the past 10 days - thus my stealthy non-presence. Good to be back home for a stretch. I hope to have some quality time with the system over the coming days. Not today though because it's WAY TOO NICE OUTSIDE to even think about indoor activity. In short, (because the lawnmower is calling me) I don't see the MagTechs going anywhere for a long time. They are dead quiet (physically and wrt SNR) and they sing sweetly with stratospheric headroom. I also love that I can leave them on all the time with exceedingly low idle power. Roger really hit it out of the park with these beauties! The Sanders pre though is going back to Colorado. The noisefloor (the bane of my existence it seems) is inexplicably high. As an aside, I also sent my Oppo95 back (during the 30 day window). The fan noise was like a knife to the genitals (OK, perhaps a bit of hyperbole there). If it weren't for the fan, the '95 would still be here. Oh well - what fun would this hobby be if there weren't always at least one component pushing you along to the next greatest discovery, no?
So Pete... do you agree with necro-progenitor's assessment comparing Carver to Sanders?
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I have to agree wholeheartedly with both of these descriptions, based on my experience with the Sanders ESL Monoblocs.
BobF
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Hi Rich,
In all fairness I am not sure how broken in either amp is and Pete has the 12 AT-7? tubes in the Sanders which even Carver said in a review was a mistake to use ( Pete has much better ones he can use).
Regardless I will be trying the Magtech at my house next week sometime if work allows and use my LSA as a preamp.
Best Regards,
Bob
BobF
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I should have said Carver in the tube in the tube amps which is obvious.
Been a long week already.
Bob
tsv_1
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It's only Monday Bob
Hope you're doing well and we're looking forward to your Magtech review.
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BobF
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Hi Todd,It's only Monday Bob
All is well here and I guess I can't complain as work has been extremely busy
Hope all is well with you and your family as well.
Waiting for sonny boy to get back and will bring the Magtech over to give it a whirl
I will let all know how I like vs. my set up as I have been extremely happy with my amp to this point.
I did get a new VAC board for my AMR and it sounds better than ever
Best,
Bob
Hey Todd, Just got back from a nice 8 day cruise on the Oasis. Man that boat is hands down amazing. Dwarfs the other cruise boats. Anyway, I agree with necro-pops on the Sanders having more speed and space and more drive for sure but I am really liking the Carvers ability to produce very natural mid range organics, I mean these do a very awesome job of that which is what I like most in most music. I just tube rolled this morning, removing the 12AT and 12AX stock chinese tubes and put in some NOS Amperex and Siemens which already have made a very nice improvement. Its gonna be a tough call. The carver allow me to enjoy more heavy music by not being tinny (mosy heavy music is recorded that way) and I listen to allot of heavy music. So its going to be a toss up for sure, much more playing to do. I heard that getting EAT KT88 tubes can make these faster we shall see. The Magtech is at Necro-pops right now, when I got home last night the amp was gone! Hey pops, remember where you got it hehehe.
