Help!, I do not want to say farewell to my ML's

[IWalker]

I really disagree. If you don't EQ the upper freqencies, you don't experience the thinness/harshness you're referring to, at least not using the behringer ultra-drive that I use. I DID notice this when I had filters applied to the upper ranges, and removed those filters for just that reason, but if you only have filters applied to the lower octaves, you should have little to no degradation of the panel sound.

Another option, if you don't want to risk it, is to bi-amp, and put an equalizer only in front of your bass amp. Then you have zero chance of the panels being affected by any of the EQ "nasties" that are being described by others.

Chances are, there is a certain resonant frequency that is causing all of your issues, so a fairly narrow filter should be able to tame that resonance, without having to lower your entire bass level significantly. this can be tested with any sort of test tone generator by running a slow frequency sweep. The help of your neighbors would be helpful, so they can tell you when they hear the noise that bothers them.

This would have the lowest overall impact on your system sound, and can be done for quite cheap http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDSP1124P ($99). Biamping would be the ideal route, but would cost significantly more (at least $300 or so for an amp to drive the bass)

Also, with EQ, you generally have a more positive effect if you are taming peaks (which would be the case with your issue) than in boosting nulls, at which point you are increasing distortion for certain frequencies. So, I think you'll do fine with this approach.

 

[jtwrace]

I really disagree. If you don't EQ the upper freqencies, you don't experience the thinness/harshness you're referring to, at least not using the behringer ultra-drive that I use. I DID notice this when I had filters applied to the upper ranges, and removed those filters for just that reason, but if you only have filters applied to the lower octaves, you should have little to no degradation of the panel sound.

Another option, if you don't want to risk it, is to bi-amp, and put an equalizer only in front of your bass amp. Then you have zero chance of the panels being affected by any of the EQ "nasties" that are being described by others.

Chances are, there is a certain resonant frequency that is causing all of your issues, so a fairly narrow filter should be able to tame that resonance, without having to lower your entire bass level significantly. this can be tested with any sort of test tone generator by running a slow frequency sweep. The help of your neighbors would be helpful, so they can tell you when they hear the noise that bothers them.

This would have the lowest overall impact on your system sound, and can be done for quite cheap http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDSP1124P ($99). Biamping would be the ideal route, but would cost significantly more (at least $300 or so for an amp to drive the bass)

Also, with EQ, you generally have a more positive effect if you are taming peaks (which would be the case with your issue) than in boosting nulls, at which point you are increasing distortion for certain frequencies. So, I think you'll do fine with this approach.

IWalker,

I agree for whatever that's worth.

 

[Thom]

I really disagree. If you don't EQ the upper freqencies, you don't experience the thinness/harshness you're referring to, at least not using the behringer ultra-drive that I use. I DID notice this when I had filters applied to the upper ranges, and removed those filters for just that reason, but if you only have filters applied to the lower octaves, you should have little to no degradation of the panel sound.

Another option, if you don't want to risk it, is to bi-amp, and put an equalizer only in front of your bass amp. Then you have zero chance of the panels being affected by any of the EQ "nasties" that are being described by others.

Chances are, there is a certain resonant frequency that is causing all of your issues, so a fairly narrow filter should be able to tame that resonance, without having to lower your entire bass level significantly. this can be tested with any sort of test tone generator by running a slow frequency sweep. The help of your neighbors would be helpful, so they can tell you when they hear the noise that bothers them.

This would have the lowest overall impact on your system sound, and can be done for quite cheap http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDSP1124P ($99). Biamping would be the ideal route, but would cost significantly more (at least $300 or so for an amp to drive the bass)

Also, with EQ, you generally have a more positive effect if you are taming peaks (which would be the case with your issue) than in boosting nulls, at which point you are increasing distortion for certain frequencies. So, I think you'll do fine with this approach.

Well Iwalker, I will give the equalizer a try. They have dozens of them on the popular 2nd hand websites over here in Holland. Actually I am only listening to my cd player which is normally connected to a Mark Levinson no. 28 preamp
using a (Dutch!) fine Siltech interlink. So how would you advise me to connect the equalizer? I realise now that I also have to buy another (expensive) interlink in cas of cd player-interlink-Eq-interlink-preamp.

 

[IWalker]

I'll send you a PM, but basically, just put the Equalizer right before whatever amp is playing into your sub (if you're just using one amp, right before your main amp)

 

[roberto]

touching the signal is a sin...

Hola. I am going to say something here, I know that many of you will say I am crazy...perhaps it is true!...if I use an equalizer, no matter if it is parametric or not, using the controls, you have to deal with phase. Also you can make a piano to sound as a big piano or making it a pianolla (small piano), why? When you use the controls, then the phase shifts, and you can make some notes, as an example, the higher notes to be more present than the lower notes, causing to be out of the stage, only in some particular notes when we had use the knobs (up or down) and changing the timbre. Also we have to deal with the harmonic distortion of the equalizer, and the signal to noise ratio too. Our ears are logarithmic, and our systems are linear. Peaks don´t match the valleys...there are a lot or resonances, but these does not means all the them are bad. The instruments itself have their own natural resonances...as an example, the guitar, the Bflat and the Gflat resonates more than any other notes...and this is true for most strings instruments...I think that the recording eng. had spent many hours of how to provide a good sound from the recording, and this is why the recordings vary from one to other so much...but the timbre and size of the instruments from a good recording label, like Reference Recording, Propius, Decca, Harmonia Mundi, London, Philips, Deuch Gramophon, DMP, Chesky Records, to name a few, are doing their best to use the less equalization in their recordings due to phase and timbre. We had spent good money on digital, phonos, preamps and amps, to get the best that ML sound can give us. There are different aproachs to equalizers...I had used them some time ago, and I could not solve my acoustical problems with them. I don´t listen highs or lows or mids, I listen the instruments...the musician(s) playing for me...or singing. The voices are great for equalizer test. The ones that have an equalizer...don´t use the knob or switch immediatelly to test if you have done right. Your ears will get confused, becasue our poor immediate memory. Do this: when you said this is the sound that I want a like...bring the volume knob to the minimum, and switch off the equalizer, then bring the volume at the same level that you had, no matter if you have to put the volume knob higher than it was with the equalizer on...don´t do the comparation leaving the volume knob at the same position, this will make you thing that the higher sound is better...with more bass or more highs...not instruments and the position of them at the stage...this is my liking, not to use an eq...I just trust my ears and use the way that I do like most...I wish to all of you a very happy listening...
Roberto.

 

[MOON]

Hi Tom,

Twitch got it right when he said you need the speakers off that front wall more. My Oddessey's are 52 inches off the wall.Your speakers will sound much better also off the wall more.

As to your bass problem, I would suggest building another wall in front of the existing wall leaving an air gap between them, 1 inch. Build a new wall 2x4 construction, use roxall safe and sound in the wall, resilant channeling and double drywall, if not double, go for the 5/8's inch thick drywall. This should eleviate bass transmission through the wall.

For the floor , I would suggest a symposium svelte shelf for under each Oddessey. You take the spikes off and just set the speaker on the shelf. You can look at this product at www.symposiumusa.com.

 

[amey01]

Well Iwalker, I will give the equalizer a try. They have dozens of them on the popular 2nd hand websites over here in Holland. Actually I am only listening to my cd player which is normally connected to a Mark Levinson no. 28 preamp
using a (Dutch!) fine Siltech interlink. So how would you advise me to connect the equalizer? I realise now that I also have to buy another (expensive) interlink in cas of cd player-interlink-Eq-interlink-preamp.

Put the EQ in your preamp tape monitor loop - then you can switch it out with NO signal degredation!!

 

[edwinr]

I don't know whether changing your sepakers are going to solve this problem. Any half decent floorstander is going to cause problems if you don't try and decouple the speakers from the floor. Just think what a pair of Summits would do in full flight! :eek1:

 

[Thom]

Put the EQ in your preamp tape monitor loop - then you can switch it out with NO signal degredation!!

Well AMEY, I bought a 2nd hand Technics SH-GE70 equalizer and it is now in between the cdplayer and the preamp. I hate the fact that I need another(expensive) interlink in this situation.
I believe my preamp Levinson no. 28 does have a tape monitor loop but I cannot figure out how to connect the wires in order to let it function the way you proposed it. So, how exactly should I connect cd player and equalizer in your opinion??

 

[MotorToad]

Well AMEY, I bought a 2nd hand Technics SH-GE70 equalizer and it is now in between the cdplayer and the preamp. I hate the fact that I need another(expensive) interlink in this situation.
I believe my preamp Levinson no. 28 does have a tape monitor loop but I cannot figure out how to connect the wires in order to let it function the way you proposed it. So, how exactly should I connect cd player and equalizer in your opinion??

Run the connectors where the EQ is where a tape recorder would go to record. Tape out on the pre to main in on the EQ, and main out of the EQ to tape in on the pre. Since you're using this to dumb down the bass, and the EQ is far from the most beneficial item to the music, I wouldn't spend too much for cables there. When you're not using the tape monitor it won't affect anything at all. Unless you've got one with the flashy light show, that is. The record out is always on (at least for preamps in my price range ), so it'll always have the flashy light show, and kids love the lights.