Hello everyone!

[capstone1]

As a new member I am interested in acquiring my first pair of ML's. I have a good friend who has a pair of the original CLS's which he drives with an ARC 90b tube amp. I have auditioned a few of the newer ESL line and although I enjoyed them, my thoughts are on the full range CLS models, and hopefully running a ML sub or two. I have owned other electrostatic units in the past, however, the transient response, soundstage, imaging and overall midrange charm of the full range CLS is very engaging. I am open to hearing what ML owners thoughts/wisdom may be on their favorite models, especially in the full range models. Good to be here!

 

[Reverb]

Hello and welcome. Can you share some pics of your system?

 

[Brad225]

Welcome capstone. Your obviously familiar with the sound of the original CLS.
I would probably be like you and choose one of the CLS versions over other hybrids ML produces. There is nothing wrong with the others just not that full range sound.

Having owned 3 versions of CLS my preference was the IIz for its ease of driving and sound.
You probably know, the original was known for being hard on amps. As long as your amps can handle them that would be my choice.

The next thing is the front end. If possible I would suggest taking your upstream electronics to your friends home and see how it sounds. If there is a weakness in anything upstream it will be painfully obvious. You probably know that based on that any music that is poorly recorded will sound painfully harsh.

After that, the only potential issue is panel age. If they will need to be replaced it will be $3000+ to do that.
I'm not trying to discourage you just think going forward.

Add subs and you will probably be very happy.

What electronics are in your current system or plans for use with the CLS?

Brad

 

[capstone1]

Hello Brad,

Thanks for replying to my post. There are many variables to consider in going the CLS route, and panels are certainly the primary one. I have read other posts here which assert the newer ESL 11 and 13 models may be a better overall choice, due mainly to potential panel and transformer replacement costs. One of my questions at this point is, will the newer models capture the heart of what the early CLS models portrayed so well, that amazing and very revealing midrange? I would drive them with tube pre/power 100 wts per side.

 

[Ronin]

I have the CLSII with z panels. They really do sound good. I agree with above though, if you can, try your amp first. I'm not sure 100wpc from a tube amp will do it for ya but many others have more experience than I do. I have always figured it was current that mattered so maybe your amp will do great. I got lucky in that the panels were NOS. So still breaking in really. Best of luck. My only other direct ML experience were Requests so I don't know the new stuff. However I was talking to my dealer and mentioned the CLS and he said he can't compare the product he carries now with the CLS. He said that "was another league". Anyway, it's about what you like, that's what matters. Best of luck!

 

[capstone1]

I have the CLSII with z panels. They really do sound good. I agree with above though, if you can, try your amp first. I'm not sure 100wpc from a tube amp will do it for ya but many others have more experience than I do. I have always figured it was current that mattered so maybe your amp will do great. I got lucky in that the panels were NOS. So still breaking in really. Best of luck. My only other direct ML experience were Requests so I don't know the new stuff. However I was talking to my dealer and mentioned the CLS and he said he can't compare the product he carries now with the CLS. He said that "was another league". Anyway, it's about what you like, that's what matters. Best of luck!

Thanks Ronin. It may make more sense to consider a repaneled speaker like a Request, Prodigy, Monolith, Summit etc. than rolling the dice on a pair of CLS which need new panels, and which may be losing support from ML sometime soon. What was your impressions from running the Requests as far as power needed, tubes or SS, soundstaging/imaging, setup needs etc.?

 

[Ronin]

Thanks Ronin. It may make more sense to consider a repaneled speaker like a Request, Prodigy, Monolith, Summit etc. than rolling the dice on a pair of CLS which need new panels, and which may be losing support from ML sometime soon. What was your impressions from running the Requests as far as power needed, tubes or SS, soundstaging/imaging, setup needs etc.?

1. Watch the market- I got pretty lucky with CLS, they can't be the only pair out there worthy of consideration.
2. Call ML or drop them an email and verify what they will or may not be supporting. I certainly had no issues with comms on the CLS but I was not ordering panels etc.

As far as the ReQuests go, it was a great speaker. I was in a medium size room/rectangle about 30X20 and they were on the long wall. Each speaker had it's own Bryston 4B amp. I never lacked power but probably over did it. I'm doing the same with the CLS at 600 into 4ohm as I'm a fan of overhead. The only limit I want to worry about is decibels lol. Like the CLS I moved them around small increments at a time for a few weeks, then they stayed put. I was primarily a rock guy back then and the requests were bad a$$.
The CLS reminds me of the Requests in a way. No big issue with position or staging but imaging and soundstage is better with the CLS .
(BTW- I also run two Rel subs, that helps imho)

I don't think you can go wrong sound wise with either one really. Good Luck..

 

[Brad225]

Hello Brad,

Thanks for replying to my post. There are many variables to consider in going the CLS route, and panels are certainly the primary one. I have read other posts here which assert the newer ESL 11 and 13 models may be a better overall choice, due mainly to potential panel and transformer replacement costs. One of my questions at this point is, will the newer models capture the heart of what the early CLS models portrayed so well, that amazing and very revealing midrange? I would drive them with tube pre/power 100 wts per side.

Hi Cap,
Only you can decide if the midrange of newer models works as well for you.
To me I preferred the full range panel of the CLS versions over other hybrids.

 

[Ronin]

Hi Cap,
Only you can decide if the midrange of newer models works as well for you.
To me I preferred the full range panel of the CLS versions over other hybrids.

Well put. I much prefer the CLS with subs over ANY hybrid I have heard. But then again, I can't say I have heard every model. But like my dealer said, the CLS is kinda special. Maybe modern improvements eclipsed the benefits but hopefully you can compare. New is not always better....

 

[Leporello]

To me, based on my experience with the CLS II versus the Ascent, I would chose the CLS hands down over any of the earlier hybrids. I have heard the newer Masterpiece series at shows, and they sound promising. But I've never auditioned them with program material I found suitable (apparently, nobody showing them in NYC likes acoustic music). And even compared to used CLS's and brand new panels, you're talking way less money than, say the ESL15A or ESL13A.

P.S. Is anyone officially associated with ML listening here? If so, could they please weigh in on discontinuing support for CLS's? Last I heard they would supply panels for any model.

 

[Robert D]

How does the cls compare to the newer clx? Seems that the panel used for higher frequencies is much smaller in the clx since much of the area on it is the bass panel? Is the "sweet spot" bigger with the cls? How does imaging compare? Does the microperf tech make up for the smaller panel?

 

[Ronin]

P.S. Is anyone officially associated with ML listening here? If so, could they please weigh in on discontinuing support for CLS's? Last I heard they would supply panels for any model.

This is what ML sent me in regards to the above question:

Hello Michael,

That is not an official policy.

We can make most of our Legacy products function.

There are a couple of power supplies we no longer can get but have schematics for.

There are also some center stats that we can't make.

 

[capstone1]

Thank you Ronin, Brad, Leporello, Robert D for your replies, lots of good information to consider. It's good to know that support for the older CLS models is not going away anytime soon. I may want to ponder this for awhile before I decide. Thank you everyone for your input.