Fellas... you guys think we're in a recession?

[repman]

I guess I am not the only one who thinks both parties were and are to blame.


Confidence in Obama reaches new low, Washington Post-ABC News poll finds


Public confidence in President Obama has hit a new low, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll. Four months before midterm elections that will define the second half of his term, nearly six in 10 voters say they lack faith in the president to make the right decisions for the country, and a clear majority once again disapproves of how he is dealing with the economy.

This Story
6 in 10 Americans lack faith in Obama
Discontent grows as voters divide
Data: Washington Post-ABC News Poll
Public Opinion Polls Archive
Regard for Obama is still higher than it is for members of Congress, but the gap has narrowed.

About seven in 10 registered voters say they lack confidence in Democratic lawmakers and a similar proportion say so of Republican lawmakers.

Overall, more than a third of voters polled -- 36 percent -- say they have no confidence or only some confidence in the president, congressional Democrats and congressional Republicans. Among independents, this disillusionment is higher still. About two-thirds of all voters say they are dissatisfied with or angry about the way the federal government is working.

(See the raw data of the Washington Post-

 

[Rich]

I said the main culprit was the Clinton administration because it was under his WATCH.
. . .
As I said there is enough blame to go around and both parties share in the mess I was just pointing out the catalyst.

So for you to try to pin most of the blame on Clinton is quite disingenuous.

No you missed it again , what I am saying is that both parties are to blame!

Gee, sure sounds like you are trying to pin most of the blame on Clinton. I mean, saying he was the "main culprit" and calling him the "catalyst" (for simply not enacting regulation that NO ONE save Born was recommending he enact) sure sounds like most of the blame to me. Not disingenuous?

 

[Len44]

Overall, more than a third of voters polled -- 36 percent -- say they have no confidence or only some confidence in the president, congressional Democrats and congressional Republicans. Among independents, this disillusionment is higher still. About two-thirds of all voters say they are dissatisfied with or angry about the way the federal government is working.

Yep -- about the only folks in congress that people seem to like is.....their own representative / senator.

Ironic, ain't it?

 

[repman]

Gee, sure sounds like you are trying to pin most of the blame on Clinton. I mean, saying he was the "main culprit" and calling him the "catalyst" (for simply not enacting regulation that NO ONE save Born was recommending he enact) sure sounds like most of the blame to me. Not disingenuous?

You know what is disingenuous ? someone who has belonged to an audio forum for years , who talks about his gear and room but has never posted a picture of it (other than a cartoon by someone else ) and has said in posts that you havent had the time yet and other excuses.
Yet you seem to have time enough to type out discourses on your political and social agenda.
why not take the 5 minutes you would normally use to answer one of my posts and take a digital picture of your system so we can see if you actually own one or are you being disingenuous?

 

[Len44]

Hey Rich -- reference your chart in post 175 (great illustration, BTW), here's a link that at least in part supports it:

http://www.seattlepi.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=2078

A cartoon, to be sure, but unfortunately all too true!

 

[User211]

No chance, repman.

Zero.

Zilsch.

 

[repman]

I wonder if we are going to have the same (intern ) problem we had with Clinton with Mr. Obama ???

 

[repman]

No chance, repman.

Zero.

Zilsch.

I agree not a chance

 

[Rich]

You know what is disingenuous ? someone who has belonged to an audio forum for years , who talks about his gear and room but has never posted a picture of it (other than a cartoon by someone else ) and has said in posts that you havent had the time yet and other excuses.

That's not disingenuous. That's being stubborn. The more someone tells me I have to do something, the less inclined I am to get around to it. It started as a joke, but after awhile I got tired of jerks telling me I had to post my system or I had no credibility. As if a picture of a stereo system adds credibility to what one writes.

As for your intern joke . . . honestly, I would rather have a president in office who was sexually satisfied than one who has to start wars and kill people in order to deal with his sexual frustrations.

 

[repman]

That's not disingenuous. That's being stubborn. The more someone tells me I have to do something, the less inclined I am to get around to it. It started as a joke, but after awhile I got tired of jerks telling me I had to post my system or I had no credibility. As if a picture of a stereo system adds credibility to what one writes.

As for your intern joke . . . honestly, I would rather have a president in office who was sexually satisfied than one who has to start wars and kill people in order to deal with his sexual frustrations.

---Quote:
Originally Posted by repman
As always Rich you cant stay on point.

This comment had nothing to do with Bush or republicans, I was merely stating I think it is of little class to make such a statement in that setting.

I guess if you feel that it is acceptable for a guest in our country to insult a former president then I completely agree, YOU and McCartney have no class

My comment was absolutely on topic. It specifically addressed the substance of your post, and offered a contrary opinion of the event. What I did not do is take a personal swipe at you for stating your opinion even though I disagree with it. You, however, could not address the substance of what I said without making a personal insult toward me. Who is the classless one here?

If you are going to post a political post on the forum, then you had better expect there will be people who have vehemently opposite views as you. If you can't debate these issues without making personal attacks, then perhaps you need to find a different forum to post on. Get the hint?
__________________
Rich
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


So not only are you stubborn ( disingenuous) but also a hypocrite , I was classless for making a personal insult as you called it yet you just called us jerks for asking you to post your system on an audio forum

If you don't want to post your system( that you always refer to) maybe you should take the advice you gave me and go post on a different forum GET THE HINT??

Perhaps a socialist forum would be more appropriate,they could care less about your system or better yet you could all share it

 

[Rich]

So not only are you stubborn ( disingenuous) but also a hypocrite , I was classless for making a personal insult as you called it yet you just called us jerks for asking you to post your system on an audio forum

If you don't want to post your system( that you always refer to) maybe you should take the advice you gave me and go post on a different forum GET THE HINT??

Perhaps a socialist forum would be more appropriate,they could care less about your system or better yet you could all share it

Repman,

You have shown time and again that you are incapable of civil debate on anything. As soon as you run out of talking points, you result to attacking the other person's character with personal insults. Even after you said you were out of this thread, you have continued to come back and attack others.

Even after observing a prime example of a civil debate between mcmd and myself, you still can't manage to stay on issues rather than go after people personally. Instead of rebutting the points I made in post # 179 about Clinton's responsibility (or lack thereof) for our current problems, you instead shifted to attacking my credibility for not posting my system. Aside from the fact that it is a ridiculous proposition that someone's credibility hinges on whether they have posted their system, it is just another of a long string of examples of you turning a thread from debate on issues into personal attacks on other forum members.

You continue to personally attack others, despite having been asked to stop doing so by members of the forum much more senior than yourself, including moderators such as Dave (twich). I have little doubt you will be banned from this forum before too long. Tom doesn't continue to put up with people turning debates into personal attacks for very long.

 

[repman]

One of the valid points mcmd makes above is how much the astronomical size of the current budget deficit hurts us in terms of resources wasted just paying interest on the debt. Repman earlier stated that both parties are responsible for our current problems and that in fact the democrats were "most" responsible.

While I will not argue that the democrats have made mistakes in the past that have contributed to our problems, I think conservatives often (perhaps intentionally) lose sight of the fact that we had a balanced budget when Bush took over. The following chart is illustrative of the real and lasting impact Bush's policies have had on our budget, and therefore, our economy and our future. Please remember the realities of this chart when you try to argue that democrat's entitlement programs are mortgaging our children's future.



/QUOTE]

I only responded again against my better judgement because you brought my name into another post of yours after I offered you an olive branch. I offered to agree to disagree on social and political issues but that if you were ever in Atlanta I would love to have you in my home and share a meal and listen to music on my system. I was quite sincere but you could'nt let it go because as I stated all along you are a keyboard bully.

I should be kicked off the forum? you just called us jerks for asking to see your system. I was merely responding to that. Maybe its you who should look in the mirror.

If Tom decides I am out of line and wants to remove me from the forum I am okay with that it is his forum and he and he alone can decide that not you.

 

[User211]

So not only are you stubborn ( disingenuous) but also a hypocrite , I was classless for making a personal insult as you called it yet you just called us jerks for asking you to post your system on an audio forum

If you don't want to post your system( that you always refer to) maybe you should take the advice you gave me and go post on a different forum GET THE HINT??

I'm not sure I took it that way, repman. In fact, I know I didn't, because that isn't what he said.

As you well know Rich not posting his system has been an on-going joke here for a long time. It's just the way it is - a certainty -- like death and taxes.

 

[repman]

That's not disingenuous. That's being stubborn. The more someone tells me I have to do something, the less inclined I am to get around to it. It started as a joke, but after awhile I got tired of jerks telling me I had to post my system or I had no credibility. As if a picture of a stereo system adds credibility to what one writes.

As for your intern joke . . . honestly, I would rather have a president in office who was sexually satisfied than one who has to start wars and kill people in order to deal with his sexual frustrations.

user211 if you read his post he says "I got tired of jerks telling me I had to post my system" , well I guess he was refering to me and others since I just mentioned it .

I could really care less about his system or if he ever posts it, that is his business. I was just using his excuses for not posting it as a reference point.

Either way its obvious that Rich is an antagonist and zealot, He can call me a jerk , uncivil , a bad speller and a host of other inflamatory remarks and I can just consider the source in the future.

I should have bit my tongue when he baited me back into the debate after I was long gone from it so he did get my goat on that ( well done Rich)

This time I am really out , It is a object lesson in futility that I am not going to participate in again. ( unless Rich baits me)

 

[User211]

user211 if you read his post he says "I got tired of jerks telling me I had to post my system" , well I guess he was refering to me and others since I just mentioned it .
I could really care less about his system or if he ever posts it, that is his business. I was just using his excuses for not posting it as a reference point.

Oh yeah - so he did!

In which case, Rich's system is mainly boring anyway... who wants to see it? Not me...:ROFL:

 

[Len44]

I'm not sure I took it that way, repman. In fact, I know I didn't, because that isn't what he said.

I totally agree with this comment. It seems a bit of liberty was taken in an unfortunate attempt to put words into Rich's mouth.

OTOH, my compliments to Rich and mcmd for providing a fine example of how to conduct a spirited debate without resorting to personal attacks, insults, and name-calling. I actually learned quite a bit from their discussion.

It is a real shame that some choose to use inappropriate comments when confronted with a lack of merit in their positions. Just because one has backed themselves into a corner and had their untenable position(s) exposed does not entitle one to engage in the ridiculous / silly behavior we have witnessed by some (well, okay, one) in this thread.

Perhaps it is time to clean things up a bit.

 

[repman]

Oh yeah - so he did!

In which case, Rich's system is mainly boring anyway... who wants to see it? Not me...:ROFL:

I think User211 revised his comment you might want to take note, as usual you got it wrong again

 

[Len44]

I think User211 revised his comment you might want to take note, as usual you got it wrong again

Not at all. And, BTW, you are the one who seems to get things wrong so much of the time -- which, also BTW, you never seem willing to address.

Anyway, thought you were done here...:ROFL:

 

[User211]

Being a little more serious about this, I don't think I ever told Rich he'd lose credibilty if he didn't post his system. Now that is a jerk thing to say. So IMHO, fair enough to Rich for his statement.

Take it easy, gentleman.

 

[mcmd]

It's difficult to describe what I'm about to write, so please bear with me. As a society we have been conditioned that there is a "right and wrong" or if you prefer, a "good and evil", and that the side we believe in is "right" and any other side taken is (by default) "wrong". We are taught to be competitive in nature, whether in school or at a job, etc. Put these two in-grained teachings together, and one can easily see how manufactured arguments can (and do) rapidly degenerate into ad hominem attacks.

In politics, this form of "logic" is called a "hegelian dialectic". It is, in part, designed to lead to false (or perhaps just simply not necessarily "true") conclusions, as the assumptions that we start with are put there for us and therefore, not our own.

Most start out with the assumption that our beliefs are "right". Most never step outside of the box they've been placed in to actually test those beliefs without the limitations of the "box". In sci-fi terms, think of it as the Matrix: those inside have no clue that they're in the "box" and therefore have no way of seeing 'the problem", let alone perceiving any way to stop being used as batteries, short of being unplugged from the Matrix itself.

I would urge all to test the assumptions of their deepest heart-felt beliefs to see if it is truth or only genius-level conditioning. When faced with a problem, see through the hegelian dialectic: do not accept that there's only one way to solve a problem, especially when the "choices" have been placed there for you to choose from. When watching media, see through the hegelian dialectic- fixing the type of problems we face will take more than what is being spoon-fed to us as "solutions".

Reducing the problem to Clinton, or Bush or Obama (or any other president you'd like to throw into the mix) is Hegelian, as it is based upon faulty assumptions- assumptions which we have so skillfully been conditioned to make that we don't even realize that they were placed there for us. We are sheep in front of master magicians. Only by critically thinking can we break out of our own Matrix.

If mods wish to delete this post, I understand. It just seemed like the time and place to write it.