Expression 13A, Source, Motion series Atmos tops and sides

[Fidji99]

so Waveforming from trinnov officialy released
https://www.trinnov.com/en/blog/pos...0-software-version-for-the-altitude-platform/
New calibration done, not bad at all. I would say.

 

[Fidji99]

just to add a bit of where Waveforming really shines - it is seat to seat consistency within listening area.

and interesting video, explaining also a lot about theory of bass, useful viewing also for non-trinnov
folks

 

[Fidji99]

After one day and initial calibration - Illusion is worth the upgrade from Focus (if you get some good deal).

 

[Robert D]

After one day and initial calibration - Illusion is worth the upgrade from Focus (if you get some good deal).

View attachment 25397

There's been a bit of debate. Would two Focus speakers sound better than one Illusion? Do you have an opinion?

 

[Fidji99]

Good question - I think dual center is solution to solve specific problem - e.g. 2 row theatre with riser and big LED wall or something similar. And it requires very precise setup and calibration to make it work.

I will still experiment in couple of weeks - will try to rise Illusion anprox 15cm from the floor, so that I get it near to lower edge of the screen.

Ilusion - Before After, you see quite linear after calibrtion [also could be verified by REW measurements] vs Focus where I was getting deep cancellation ,that could be solved only partially and with quite agressive EQ;uing - audibly it was not bad, but Illusion makes it more effortless.

Focus

 

[sammy134]

Good question - I think dual center is solution to solve specific problem - e.g. 2 row theatre with riser and big LED wall or something similar. And it requires very precise setup and calibration to make it work.

I will still experiment in couple of weeks - will try to rise Illusion anprox 15cm from the floor, so that I get it near to lower edge of the screen.

Ilusion - Before After, you see quite linear after calibrtion [also could be verified by REW measurements] vs Focus where I was getting deep cancellation ,that could be solved only partially and with quite agressive EQ;uing - audibly it was not bad, but Illusion makes it more effortless.

View attachment 25405

Focus

View attachment 25406

Wow that focus before frequency response is shocking lol. I understand it's very much room interaction, no way anechoic data would look like that...


Besides point, wouldn't phantom center be better? Have you tried it?

Phantom center still gives me imaging capabilities, in HT use. Usually imaging is a stereo thing where you can close your eyes and point to where the sound is coming from in between speakers. When I use phantom center, I can close my eyes and point to where the voices coming from on the movie that's playing (if a convo was happening of a character on the left side vs right side of the screen).

Real center channels have never done this for me, and I ditched my center a bit ago. They anchor the audio to the center of the panel, lose imaging capability, which is not accurate to the source if you think about it. I also still see a real center channel it as a compromise for non MLP seats aswell because it's not accurate to the source. Voice would just be coming from the same anchored middle for non MLP seats

Atleast with phantom center, the MLP is a truly non compromised and source accurate experience.

 

[Fidji99]

Besides point, wouldn't phantom center be better? Have you tried it?

Yes, Trinnov gives the possibility to have several layouts of speakers, even if nothing changes physically. E.g. you can use front wides as additional pair of surrounds in DTS or Center Height [of Auro fame] as dual Center for Atmos. Trinnov is really good in aligning L-C-R and creating the bubble of sound [I can compare with Audyssey and Dirac based AVP's] and it is completely different thing.

I like the "window to the picture" sensation for movies and concerts. I prefer to have C engaged, especially now. Focus was not bad, bur Illusion is much better - basically doubling the size of drivers, which makes it noticeably more linear.

Actually. lot of MCH music is mixed without Center channel anyway and I agree that no center is much better than average/bad center.

 

[Duke]

I am always considering the Illusion. Will you be raking the center to vertical when you raise it?

 

[Fidji99]

I am always considering the Illusion. Will you be raking the center to vertical when you raise it?

yes, that is the plan.
Once i find proper stand.

 

[Duke]

I wish Martin Logan will produce a center channel that goes below 150 Hz with the panel. The Illusion seems way better than my Theater.
I am always considering the Illusion but with the cross over from panel to the 6.5 is 500Hz which is above the voice frequency. My Theater pair crosses over at 300Hz and has the same problem. Reading that forced me to change out the 6.5 speakers to a Scanspeak to improve the human voice frequencies because it seemed a better built speaker.
Women: The average range for an adult woman's voice is 165–255 Hz.
Men: The average range for an adult man's voice is 85–155 Hz.

 

[gvera]

I wish Martin Logan will produce a center channel that goes below 150 Hz with the panel. The Illusion seems way better than my Theater.
I am always considering the Illusion but with the cross over from panel to the 6.5 is 500Hz which is above the voice frequency. My Theater pair crosses over at 300Hz and has the same problem. Reading that forced me to change out the 6.5 speakers to a Scanspeak to improve the human voice frequencies because it seemed a better built speaker.
Women: The average range for an adult woman's voice is 165–255 Hz.
Men: The average range for an adult man's voice is 85–155 Hz.

Given that no Hybrid ML crosses that low with the panel I would say you won't ever see one.
Even the Neolith panel crosses at 250 at the lowest setting.

 

[Fidji99]

I wish Martin Logan will produce a center channel that goes below 150 Hz with the panel. The Illusion seems way better than my Theater.
I am always considering the Illusion but with the cross over from panel to the 6.5 is 500Hz which is above the voice frequency. My Theater pair crosses over at 300Hz and has the same problem. Reading that forced me to change out the 6.5 speakers to a Scanspeak to improve the human voice frequencies because it seemed a better built speaker.
Women: The average range for an adult woman's voice is 165–255 Hz.
Men: The average range for an adult man's voice is 85–155 Hz.

While you are correct re base frequencies of voices, I have heard everywhere that critical frequencies for intelegibilty of spech is rather in 1-3kHz area. This is so called "Dialog Enhancer" target curve used by Denon/Marantz - as you see is couple of dB centered around 1.5kHz. [BTW this is the curve I am using on Trinnov for Center Channel in preset called "Christopher Nolan".

So it somehow falls into operating range of Illusion panel.

 

[Kernel]

After one day and initial calibration - Illusion is worth the upgrade from Focus (if you get some good deal).

View attachment 25397

I too really wanted the illusion. I did think about the possibility of mounting it ABOVE the screen (which is the only current option for my setup/room), but clearly this would have been ridiculous . In the end I settled for the Focus with REL subwoofer support.