Exhausted with research...Need help...

[jammikpham]

Hello All!

I live over an hour from a larger city. One day, my wife and I were able to make it the larger city on a "date night" and made a stop at Best Buy with a Magnolia center. I was/am looking for some bookshelf speakers and sub, with a receiver to primarily listen to streaming music, with the occasional movie in the living room. After sampling many of the products there, imagine my surprise when the missus said " I really like those Martin Logans (Classic ESL-9 and Impression ESL-11)". She really loved the "look" of them and didn’t much care for any of the bookshelf speakers (since I would have to get stands) or any of the floorstanding speakers. She mentioned they would "look great in our living room"

Sweet! Now my problem. Since then, I have been researching Martin Logans, Electrostatic speakers, pre/pro systems, AV receivers, Dedicated amps, Subs, Direct servo subs, and pretty much everything in between. I have visited numerous forums, websites, and have even been in touch with the Magnolia Rep. Information overload. I still need help. Here's what I need to know:

-Can I put together a reasonable system (any combination of pre/pro, speakers and +/-sub) for $6500? Is it even worth it to try?
-Primarily will be used for streaming music and occasional movie? Will probably dip my toes into Hi-res audio to get more use out of these speakers down the road.
-Suggested to me by Magnolia (they are somewhat limited due to the products they carry--Martin Logan Electromotion ESL (~2500), Marantz pre/pro AV 7704 (2100) (though I can find 7703 online for ~1400), Rotel RB 1572 (1299) with remaining for a Dynamo sub. Even the ESL-X, (4000), but wouldn't be able to do a sub then...
-I've researched other amps including, but not limited to: Emotiva, Outlaw, Marantz, and have even looked at costlier brands, such as Mcintosh, Krell, etc. (no intent to buy, just researching them with electrostatics) as well as even pro amps such as Crown and Behringer (since Crown is a recommended amp on Martin Logan's website for OUTDOOR speakers)
-Sampling stuff is hard since I live over an hour away from Magnolia center and shipping/purchasing a bunch of different products from different companies and testing them within the companies return windows is a headache I'm not ready to deal with.
-If I cannot get a worthwhile system, I'll just get a soundbar ;( or something…..

Thanks in Advance
James

 

[twich54]

James, welcome to the fold !

First off........for $6500 you bet you can put together a nice system !

I'm a little confused since the speakers you like are in fact 'floor standers' ?

 

[jammikpham]

Yeah, go figure...

My wife does NOT like the look of traditional floor standers (a big rectangle box with circles in them) and she was really impressed with the look of the Martin Logans transducers with their "mesh" and "modern" appearance. FYI, she appeared offended when looking at the Bower and Wilkins speakers too...

She likes the non-traditional look of the Martin Logans, and I definitely agree with her!:rocker:

 

[twich54]

Yeah, go figure...

My wife does NOT like the look of traditional floor standers (a big rectangle box with circles in them) and she was really impressed with the look of the Martin Logans transducers with their "mesh" and "modern" appearance. FYI, she appeared offended when looking at the Bower and Wilkins speakers too...

She likes the non-traditional look of the Martin Logans, and I definitely agree with her!:rocker:

Excellent, well that settles that then.

Now, moving onto the selection process. If your budget is $6500, IMO at a min I would allocate 1/3 of that for speakers, possibly up to 1/2 knowing that you might have to compromise on your AVR / pre-pro/amp purchase.

Would you consider any used components ?

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Excellent, well that settles that then.

Now, moving onto the selection process. If your budget is $6500, IMO at a min I would allocate 1/3 of that for speakers, possibly up to 1/2 knowing that you might have to compromise on your AVR / pre-pro/amp purchase.

Would you consider any used components ?

Personally I would put 2/3 into speakers, but I have no turn table, and use my OPPO 105D as my CD/SACD/BD & D/A & preamp then stream my music by USB from a computer to the OPPO 105D. I'm not including the computer in that price.

 

[jammikpham]

Never really considered used as I am somewhat hesitant, especially with the possible failure of some electronics, even new--I like warranty

That being said, if a reputable site is available, I would at least have to consider....

Thanks

 

[GW1800]

So I'm a little confused? Budget of $6500 yet the two ML speakers you are interested in are at or way above that amount? Yes there will be some discount but not enough to add most anything else worth while.

So you find yourself at a fork in the road from what I understand. The wife is on board but now what? Are you/her really interested in audio equipment or the pursuit of good quality sound or just thought it would be fun to get a bunch of stuff that in 3 years you will move on to another hobby selling what you have at a local rummage sale? Many of us in this hobby did not know so it took up a lot of time and in the long run cost us money figuring this out. What I'm getting at is if this looks like something that you will enjoy for many many years then don't be short sighted to just get a bunch of stuff that is next to impossible to build upon without replacing.

Case in point - My son started with next to nothing but knew that long term he was in this hobby for the long haul. Fortunately for him I had some good quality cast offs to throw his way but he also was very smart with what he purchased. He concentrated on the speakers first which is what you are doing which is great. In his case he went with the 13a's. That is a lot more then you are talking however I would urge you like others above to spend a big chunk on the speakers and in your case the 11's. You will thank yourself in the coming years that you made that choice and did not go with a less expensive one just to get more stuff. My suggestion to you for streaming Tidal ideally would be initially get the 11's with a Parasound Integrated and a Sonos Connect. Then down the road get a Aurender A10 and you will have quite the system for streaming even MQA!

 

[twich54]

all good GW but back to his original question of putting a system together for $6500......yes he can !

 

[ElectroNoob]

I think your money can go a lot further if you are willing to buy used gear. Another advantage is if/when you upgrade your components you can sell the gear back for almost as much as you paid for them (or even make a profit if you get a good deal). A good place to look for used gear is hifishark.com.

If you really need to buy new equipment wait till a new model is introduced and buy the outgoing model. I was able to get my brand new Stage for 50%. I believe the Montis were selling for 50% off too.

 

[Bernard]

I don't have specific recommendations, but hate to see someone try to get everything within the budget. Specifically, scrap the sub for starters, and put the money into good amplification.....I think people mistakenly get into this thinking they can use a receiver to drive Logans. If really required, a sub can be added later.

 

[ElectroNoob]

Oh and my suggestion is NOT to get the Electromotion ESL. I opened mine up to add some sound dampening and the cabinet design is nowhere near where it should be for it's price point.

 

[jammikpham]

Thanks so much for the input so far all!

I will take a look at hifishark.com

I am looking for long term equipment. However, I am still pretty new to all this "higher end" equipment and don't want to invest in a huge purchase (Impressions/expressions, etc..) without having time to experience Martin Logan speakers in general. Loved the Magnolia audition, but that is not like having it in your home. I have a limited budget and would like to start with ESL-or ESL-X, and if those are as good as I expect, then in several years, I can hopefully then take the plunge to bigger speakers. As much as I enjoyed the Impressions and Expressions at Best Buy, the price for everything is just not feasible right now.

I know the budget sucks, but it is what it is. I can't just buy the speakers and have no amp to drive it. I need essentially a Martin Logan "starter pack" and as time goes and future savings increase, improve on the components. That's why I'm trying to determine the best mix of speaker, receiver, amp and +/-sub.

I don't want to sound naive, I'm just trying to see if that budget would provide me with a good, beginning, Martin Logan experience. If not, I can wait; but for what? Expressions that cost 15K?, Renaissance which costs 25K--not counting amplification and such?

One last thing:electronoob: I know you suggested NOT getting the ESL because of the dampening and cabinet design--but does that affect your overall listening experience with this speaker?

It seems that if budget is 2/3 speakers, then ESL-x (4000), rotel amp (1299), and marantz 7703 (1400)?

I do appreciate all the feedback, thanks again for posting!

 

[twich54]

I don't have specific recommendations, but hate to see someone try to get everything within the budget. Specifically, scrap the sub for starters, and put the money into good amplification.....I think people mistakenly get into this thinking they can use a receiver to drive Logans. If really required, a sub can be added later.

good point Bernard, I agree !

Thanks so much for the input so far all!

I will take a look at hifishark.com

I am looking for long term equipment. However, I am still pretty new to all this "higher end" equipment and don't want to invest in a huge purchase (Impressions/expressions, etc..) without having time to experience Martin Logan speakers in general. Loved the Magnolia audition, but that is not like having it in your home. I have a limited budget and would like to start with ESL-or ESL-X, and if those are as good as I expect, then in several years, I can hopefully then take the plunge to bigger speakers. As much as I enjoyed the Impressions and Expressions at Best Buy, the price for everything is just not feasible right now.

I know the budget sucks, but it is what it is. I can't just buy the speakers and have no amp to drive it. I need essentially a Martin Logan "starter pack" and as time goes and future savings increase, improve on the components. That's why I'm trying to determine the best mix of speaker, receiver, amp and +/-sub.

I don't want to sound naive, I'm just trying to see if that budget would provide me with a good, beginning, Martin Logan experience. If not, I can wait; but for what? Expressions that cost 15K?, Renaissance which costs 25K--not counting amplification and such?

One last thing:electronoob: I know you suggested NOT getting the ESL because of the dampening and cabinet design--but does that affect your overall listening experience with this speaker?

It seems that if budget is 2/3 speakers, then ESL-x (4000), rotel amp (1299), and marantz 7703 (1400)?

I do appreciate all the feedback, thanks again for posting!

one more important question to ask........... tell us a little about your room to which the system will reside

 

[jammikpham]

In the picture above, The wall with the windows measures about 19'9" and the wall with the fireplace measures 18'3" with the stone fireplace about 5'. My TV and entertainment system are king of in that nook and measures 5'10", leaving about 3' on either side for speakers. Open 2 stories tall.

I understand that speakers should be a priority, and I absolutely agree. I already feel like Martin Logans, even the ESL and ESLX are very good. I also appreciate the thought of waiting and saving up which I may end up doing. The problem with that is what should i really save up to get? The 11's, which are ~10k, not counting amp and extras? That's gonna be 2x my "budget". I would love to own some Martin Logans sooner than later.

I understand that nobody likes budgets, but for a starter system then, what should I realistically think of spending?

Thanks again!

 

[ElectroNoob]

One last thing:electronoob: I know you suggested NOT getting the ESL because of the dampening and cabinet design--but does that affect your overall listening experience with this speaker?

The lack of bracing in the cabinet cause cancellation at lower frequency due to resonance. I paid $1,000 for my pair of Electromotions so I can't complain. If i had to spend $2,400 I would pick up a pair of used Vantages. The panels are bigger and have a lower crossover point to the woofers. The woofers are also self powered so you only need to worry about powering the electrostatic panels.

 

[Bernard]

There are a bunch of Logans currently on hifishark, at good prices, so $6,500 is definitely doable. The ideal would be to listen to the speakers before purchase.....maybe use a small part of the budget for travel? Road trip? A good amp would also be affordable.

Looks promising, so far.

I like the room, BTW!

 

[ElectroNoob]

Here's how I put my system together for under $6,500. My total cost is $6,250 for a full 5.1 system (minus cables and wires)

Electromotion ESL (Used) - $1,000, bought from some rich kid who was moving to college.
Stage (New) - $1,500, outgoing model from AudioAdvisor
Pair of FX2 (New, I think) - $700, got them from some dude on Ebay. Looks new in box, had all the wrapping and mounting template.
Marantz AV7702MK2 (New) - $1,200, out going model from Crutchfield
Sunfire Cinema Grand 200 Five Series II (Reconditioned) - $1,000, bought it from ebay for $600 and had it recondition by Bill Flannery for $400.
MFW-15 Turbo (Used/New) - $850, I bought the MFW-15 for $200, the amp died but I was able to buy a never installed Turbo Kit for $650.

 

[jammikpham]

Thank you all for your input, thus far.

I guess I'm really going to have to look hard at used equipment, which seems like could be a really good deal.

Just like with any other electronics, it always seems like "if I just save a little bit more, then I could get...." pretty soon, you're just saving and not enjoying.

Thanks again, and I'll definitely keep my eyes on this forum for any additional input!

 

[timm]

Thank you all for your input, thus far.

I guess I'm really going to have to look hard at used equipment, which seems like could be a really good deal.

Just like with any other electronics, it always seems like "if I just save a little bit more, then I could get...." pretty soon, you're just saving and not enjoying.

Thanks again, and I'll definitely keep my eyes on this forum for any additional input!

I really think you could find used summits( not the summit X ) or spires for around 4K. I would head down that path. Those are two great speakers in my opinion.

Not sure of your musical tastes or how loud you listen.

And one more thing. What are you looking for? A killer 2 channel system that is going to sound holographic with the appropriate seating position ? Or some good background listening while you walk around the house and do things? Are you thinking home theater - 5.1 channel ?

 

[Bernard]

I really think you could find used summits( not the summit X ) or spires for around 4K. I would head down that path. Those are two great speakers in my opinion.

Not sure of your musical tastes or how loud you listen.

And one more thing. What are you looking for? A killer 2 channel system that is going to sound holographic with the appropriate seating position ? Or some good background listening while you walk around the house and do things? Are you thinking home theater - 5.1 channel ?

Very valid questions timm. In post #1 he said primarily for streaming music, and the occasional movie, and hi-res down the road. That stated, I would go for the killer 2-channel system, with the best possible amp, and can the subs for now. I always think it's a fallacy going for an x.1 system, but then I'm not an HT guy.