Effectiveness of Power Conditioners

[longhorn]

I have heard that Bryston states that their customers should not use Power Conditioners with their amps. Why is that? Does that not fly in the face of the marketing of Power Conditioners?

What are Power Conditioners effects with ML speakers other than surge protection benefits. Does cleaning effect help ML speakers or is it even noticeable?

And I know this has been discussed before on the old forum,what about power cables? On source and power units one can hear differences.....................sometimes,what about on ML speakers? What have been the forum's members experience ?

Thank you in advance for answering my questions.

 

[Nick]

I believe Bryston says that because they use a power choke filter inside their amps. I think there reasoning is - If there is already a filter in the amp it would be best not to limit the draw of the amp buy plugging it into a conditioner?

That being said, I did notice positive improvements with my older 3B when I ran it thought the high current outlet on my Monster Power. It seemed to put everything into better focus, imaging was more defined as well as instruments. It also help take a layer of veil off everything as well as tighten up the bottom end. I find that a little improvement here and there can add up to a lot in the end.

So unless you are using an active conditioner I would recommend plugging it in and at least giving it a try. Some people prefer it directly into the wall and others in their conditioner. I think it depends on the conditioner being used, how much power your speakers take and just how clean your power is to start with.

happy listening,
Nick

 

[Anthony A.]

in my opinion, richard gray is the only way to go for line conditioning. amps should never be plugged into anything as almost all line/power conditioners have current limiting circuits within them. richard gray's conditioners are effective on the entire a/c line they are connected to, regardless if they are plugged in or not. if you are interested, go to their site and read up on how to test your system using their products. unbelievable difference. btw, i am a current owner, no affiliations.

 

[Kevin]

There is only one way to go and that is with network/industrial conditioners. They are a fraction of the price and out perform ANY big money "high" end conditioner.

http://www.tripplite.com/

 

[as350_b3]

Kevin, I've been debating if it's worth spending $270 to find out by buying the 2400 Tripp Lite line conditioner or save up for a much more expensive one.

I would greatly appreciate if you could provide a little bit more information about the Tripp Lites (other than the very obvious price advantage). Are you using it in a 2 channel audio system or HT? What kind of power rating does your amp have (and how many channels)? Have you experienced any of the dreaded clipping, distortion, etc. when played very loud?

Thanks for your info.

Andy

 

[Reverb2009]

as350_b3

There is a small thread about the Tripp Lite on AVSforum.com, thought it mite help you.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=486492&highlight=tripp+lite

 

[Bonedust]

as350_b3

There is a small thread about the Tripp Lite on AVSforum.com, thought it mite help you.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=486492&highlight=tripp+lite

wow, the guys posting in that thread are really clueless..

u hvae used tripplite stuff for years. but i would plug an amp into it.

 

[Anthony A.]

i actually went through a lot of industrial stuff myself, including voltage stabilizers. i used tripplite, equitech balanced power, surgex surge suppression, and many more. richard gray was by far the best. tripplite makes many clicking noises when in use so beware. threads in the avsforum prove that i was not the only one experiencing it. as for voltage stabilizers, they are useless as 90% of electronics these days already have switch mode power supplies. this means that thay can use from 90-130v without any deterioration whatsoever.

 

[davei]

fellows
i just got a blue circle music ring mr1200 3 weeks ago, first off it is a voltage balancer, 2nd it has filter past that. the music ring sounds incredible, i replaced a shunyata hydra-4 with it, using it on just my preamp and transport.
the sound stage has more depth and the bass is more accurate, for the price it really is a bargain!! beware gilbert forbid me from plugging any ML into it, he said in experience they sound worse with balanced power.
good luck
davei
http://www.bluecircle.com/index.php?menu_id=2724

 

[DTB300]

u hvae used tripplite stuff for years. but i would plug an amp into it.

Bone......Huh? Who is "u"? Some here have reported bad sonics with Tripp Lite's. You have not experienced this with TL's on Amps?

I would prefer one of the Brickwall Surge protectors over a Tripp Lite or Monster or anything else that uses MOV's - for surges that is......

For conditioning, I would check out how bad the power really is in your home first. Spend some small $$$$ on an electrician before thinking of spending some big $$$ on power equipment.

Is it true most equipment today can easily handle the +-5% changes? (That means from 114 - 126 swings)

 

[Kevin]

I would greatly appreciate if you could provide a little bit more information about the Tripp Lites (other than the very obvious price advantage). Are you using it in a 2 channel audio system or HT? What kind of power rating does your amp have (and how many channels)? Have you experienced any of the dreaded clipping, distortion, etc. when played very loud?

First off don't go and blow a huge pile of money on a "high" end line conditioner because it is a waste of money. I am using mine in a 80% HT 20% 2CH system. My amp is a Mcintosh MC207 at 200watts x 7 with 4/8 ohm load. When you talk about clipping or overdriving an amp I honestly have no idea how anyone can take a quality amp and overdrive it? I have turned up my music to the point of being uncomfortably loud to listen to and not have the amp come close to "clipping". I have never experienced distortion in any of my systems including my first mid range sony receiver and energy C8 speakers.

wow, the guys posting in that thread are really clueless..u hvae used tripplite stuff for years. but i would plug an amp into it.

Why not? Clean AC power is clean AC power.

i just got a blue circle music ring mr1200 3 weeks ago, first off it is a voltage balancer, 2nd it has filter past that. the music ring sounds incredible, i replaced a shunyata hydra-4 with it, using it on just my preamp and transport.

Uh ya if you honestly think a AC line conditioner can add any sonic characteristics to your equipment you need your ears checked.

Some here have reported bad sonics with Tripp Lite's.

Once again people are hearing things that can not happen. The only job of an AC line conditioner is to eliminate EMI/RFI noise, stabilize the voltage, and provide surge protection. So clean AC power at 120V is the same as clean AC power at 120V despite the product that you use or amount of money that is spent.

 

[Kevin]

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2832

Here is a link to the tripp lite LCR2400.

 

[Bonedust]

Bone......Huh? Who is "u"? Some here have reported bad sonics with Tripp Lite's. You have not experienced this with TL's on Amps?

I would prefer one of the Brickwall Surge protectors over a Tripp Lite or Monster or anything else that uses MOV's - for surges that is......

For conditioning, I would check out how bad the power really is in your home first. Spend some small $$$$ on an electrician before thinking of spending some big $$$ on power equipment.

Is it true most equipment today can easily handle the +-5% changes? (That means from 114 - 126 swings)

i apologize, i meant 'me'. i wouldnt run an amp through 99% of the consumer grade line conditioners on the market today. i simply use the Tripp-lite product as a surge protection unit. no, i have NEVER experienced poor sonics.

I use a whole house line conditioning system that goes inline before the dedicated panel for my system. that leaves the tripp-lite product to do nothing but protect.

Kevin- i appreciate your opinions on this matter, but please understand...they are just that, opinions. First of all, by what standard do you consider AC to be clean? What are the amperage losses after the AC is cleaned?

'Uh ya if you honestly think a AC line conditioner can add any sonic characteristics to your equipment you need your ears checked.'

I work side by side with an Electrical engineer and an electrician, and you couldnt be more incorrect. EVERYTHING factors into the sonic blueprint. its like saying "89 octane gas and 110 octane gas will make a car run exactly the same way". you need to invest in a high grade multi-meter and an osciliscope before you form any more opinions.

 

[Kevin]

Kevin- i appreciate your opinions on this matter, but please understand...they are just that, opinions. First of all, by what standard do you consider AC to be clean? What are the amperage losses after the AC is cleaned?

Clean AC power = no EMI/RFI noise, 120V at 60Hz, that is it what more can you have? Amperage loss? The line conditioner supports up to a 20A load which is more than enough for any home sound system. 2400 watts output power rating supports 120V loads up to 20 amps.

I work side by side with an Electrical engineer and an electrician, and you couldnt be more incorrect. EVERYTHING factors into the sonic blueprint. its like saying "89 octane gas and 110 octane gas will make a car run exactly the same way". you need to invest in a high grade multi-meter and an osciliscope before you form any more opinions.

Once again if your power is free of EMI/RFI noise and is measured at 120V and 60Hz that is all you can have. Perfect clean power is clean no matter how you achieve it. Clean AC power will have no effect on your sonic characteristics or sound stage. As for your octane rating in fuels it will affect the engines performance "IF" the engine can use the high octane level. If you took a new honda civic and put 89 or 110 octane gas into the engine that car will run the same because it can not use 110 octane fuel to any advantage. The only time you need to increase the octane level in a engine is if you increase the compression or add a forced induction system to it (turbocharger,supercharger) to prevent pinging.

So if I went out and purchased a $1200 oscilloscope took a picture to prove my AC power is close to perfect what would you say to me then?

 

[Bonedust]

Science says otherwise, but who needs all those silly proven facts.

I'm not going to argue about this.

 

[Kevin]

Science says otherwise, but who needs all those silly proven facts.

Ya science is on my side! I am right and you are wrong.

 

[Reverb2009]

Ya science is on my side! I am right and you are wrong.

More colorful commentary from the peanut gallery.

 

[Kevin]

More colorful commentary from the peanut gallery.

Did you come up with that one all by yourself or did you need help?

 

[Nick]

Come on guys.

This is not the first time this has come up.
Maybe it's time to agree to disagree?

 

[DTB300]

So if I went out and purchased a $1200 oscilloscope took a picture to prove my AC power is close to perfect what would you say to me then?

But you need to take it apart first, to prove that it is like all other oscilloscopes