Digital volume = Death of Pre amps??

[jmstpierre]

Please correct me if m wrong but it seems to me that most new dac and even Source are now incorporating volume function/control.
Are we about to see a change where the Pre will eventually disappear from the audio chain? may be the next generation will not even bother with a Pre. Does the technology need to really improve and evolve a lot more before we can really safely say that a Pre is no longer needed.?
Even analogue die hard companies like naim are now incorporating volume control in there new product, and it seems to me that there s less and less Pre amp being release every year, or is it simply that dacs are the flavor of the industry at the moment and there is not much press about Pre amps.
Have any of you decided to forgo the Pre in lieu of a more direct path (source to amp) and been pleasantly surprised, or vice versa.
Looking forwards to read your thoughts.
Regards
Jean

 

[Bernard]

Preamps also provide switching capability among multiple sources, so unless you are willing to switch cables every time, you will need a preamp........or a switch box.

 

[roberto]

Yes, but the new MDAC has five inputs, two coax, two toslink and one USB. Yup, no phono. It has seven different digital filters, and you can choose the one that you liked most for a particular recording, with volume control, balance and also has VU meters very appear to the Nakamichi cassette decks. If you are only digital, there is no need for a preamplifier to drive you amp. But keep in mind this too: Some good preamps, when you pass the audio signal through it, you might get a warmer sound over all. Deeper bass, and extended highs too. Better sound stage, and more communication with the musician(s). Happy liistening.

 

[jmstpierre]

Just came back from a dealer to audition a dac and got talking to the owner and he told me that suprisinfly, even though man people buy dacs at the moment , his biggest selling item are turntables from any price point.
Saying that he also pointed out that it was more of an older generation that did buy turntables, not many youngsters, which prefer the convenience of digital playback and library. As such do you think that eventually it will jot be viable for companies to produce any more turntable.
Same applies to cd players I guess, some companies are not even producing them.
Regards

 

[amey01]

The lines between preamplifier and DAC are certainly blurring. There are DACs with volume controls and preamps with DAC circuitry incorporated. The issues I see are:

1: It is not really a DAC, but a "preamplifier with DAC chip" if it has analogue capability. So to truly go down this path you would have to have a digital-only system
2: Preamps can drive amplifiers better than most DACs alone. A bit of active preamplification - while not always necesary in an absolute sense - can give an advantage.
3: Digital volume controls are not always what they seem. Some have the resolution and algorithms to not truncate bits (eg. Wadia designs, M-DAC, etc), but others do truncate (eg. Squeezebox), resulting in reduced bit-depth.

 

[jmstpierre]

I was under the impression that a power amp being the last component before reaching the speakers, to have the biggest influence on sound,ie warm, bright, neutral. If one pefers a distinct sound, one should shop for an amp that offers those qualities. I understand that Pre can influence the sound to some extent but not as much as the power amp. P,ease feel free to elaborate if you think m missing a point here, or do Pre really make a bigger difference than an amp?
Regards

 

[shakham]

I think we are playing with terminology here....

I consider a pre-amp a device that does everything except amplification. This includes audio/video switching, DAC, decoding, volume control...not withstanding profile management, and automation.

Now if someone feels they want a "better" external DAC...then you basically split the pre-amp into DAC + preamp (-DAC).
If the DAC starts having pre-amp features in it...it is pretty much a pre-amp at that point, no? One with an exceptional DAC, but I'd call it a pre-amp.

or call it a Super DAC .

 

[Spike]

You can approach this topic from the opposing perspective: pre-amps are alive and well with analog volume. There is a new crop of pre-amplifiers with optional DAC boards installed internally:
1. Classe' Audio CP-800
2. ModWright LS-100
3. Bryston BP6 or BP17

I'd venture to say that the analog volume control of these pre-amplifiers are better than the op-amp final stage of the M-DAC. Like Shakham said, different terminologies applying to the same class of equipment.

 

[JonFo]

Also note that some pre-amps, like my Denon AVP-A1 have digitally controlled analogue volume controls.

In this unit, that's implemented by a series of finely matched resistor-ladder devices just before the final analog amplification stage driving the pre-outs.

In essence, a modern version of the old analog stepped attenuators made up of a bunch of discreet resistors.

I believe many premium preamps and AVRs use this approach vs digital decimation. And from a pure sound-quality perspective, this can be even better than a plain analog potentiometer.