DAC's?

[audioraptured]

DAC's

Capt. Tinker: great questions. I am wondering what would be cost effective when looking to upgrade. I have an old Sony ES79 that is still operating pretty well, and a Pioneer 45A. I have been looking for a carrousel DVD player with really great sound quality that didn't cost more than a few thousand. My player still is pretty good, and I think it's even warmer than the Pioneer, just not that detailed on some selections. The few recommended selection here are rather good. But I live where there is little selection, or they'll not let you try out at home, or the price of what's available is too much, etc. But there is some fun in learning from the WEB what's a good bet. I wish these companies, just once,would ALL work together to get one Great format, compatable with everything, and just make one super quality piece that was affordable for say $1000 and all cooperating companies share profits,software,etc. I'd buy company stock!

 

[DTB300]

I have been looking for a carrousel DVD player with really great sound quality that didn't cost more than a few thousand.

I did not realize there was a carrousel DVD player, but then again, I cannot say I ever looked for one.

Dan

 

[Pcar928fan]

I did not realize there was a carrousel DVD player, but then again, I cannot say I ever looked for one.

Dan

Dan,

There are a bunch of them! Sony makes several different models and there are lots of their older models out there. Pioneer makes some as well as Kenwood. The Kenwood and Sony (top of the line) can be paired w/ an Escient and daisy chained to have as many as 900 titles right at your finger tips! Pretty awesome!

 

[captain_tinker]

Well, my biggest question really was about HDCD on the DAC's. From researching further, it sounds that if a DAC does not decode the HDCD portion of the disc, then you lose that information. (obviously) But if upsampling the CD portion to say 24/192, then does it really matter that you lose the HDCD portion? I am assuming probably not.

I suppose that when attaching a DAC to a DVD player via the digital out, it is not going to decode DTS or Dolby as it is meant for 2 channel only PCM, so you would need to make sure that the DVD player you are going to use will only be used as a CD player at that point. I do have a DVD player for this purpose, but using an older DVD player such as the SD1600 as a transport I have heard may not sound all that wonderful either. Not sure why if the digital outs are really just reading bits and passing them to the DAC, does it really matter? It sure sounds like it must with all the stuff I have heard about transports. I guess that's the next thing for me to research...

So I guess that now I have pretty much gotten the idea of how DAC's work, now I just want to get my mitts on one to hear how it sounds in my system. I'll have to check a few places around to see what is available for auditioning, unless someone who may live nearby me has one who wouldn't mind letting me borrow it?

-capT

 

[DTB300]

There are a bunch of them! Sony makes several different models and there are lots of their older models out there. Pioneer makes some as well as Kenwood. The Kenwood and Sony (top of the line) can be paired w/ an Escient and daisy chained to have as many as 900 titles right at your finger tips! Pretty awesome!

How about that. As you can tell, video is not my priority so I never looked for a multi-DVD player, as I never needed or wanted one.

Dan

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Folks,
Doing more research and had more questions. Noticed that Musical Fidelity's X-Dac has support for HDCD, but in every other DAC I've looked at, I have not seen this as an option. The X-DAC apparently comes in several versions, the X-DAC, the X-DAC V3, and the V8, which if I am right, is tubed and SS (neat!). I also see that most DAC's upsample from 16 bits, 44 Khz, to 24 bits, 192 Khz. Some of them even higher, I don't remember which one, but one went to 32 bits! (double neat!)

Anyway, my question is if a DAC upsamples to 24 bit, 192 Khz, do you really need to worry if it can do HDCD? I ask, mainly because I have a couple of HDCD's and I do notice a very big difference between them and my regular cd's. So since HDCD is 24 bit already, perhaps it is not worth having it support HDCD since all cd's will sound like HDCD at that point, right? Here again, I have not had a chance to hear one, so I am making educated guesses here.

-capT

Only the original X-DAC has HDCD. I am a fan of HDCD and have looked at all of the DACs out there with HDCD decoding. PS audio, Musical Fidelity, Parasound, and Classe all made DACs with HDCD built in. :music:

 

[kcl]

The Kenwood and Sony (top of the line) can be paired w/ an Escient and daisy chained to have as many as 900 titles right at your finger tips! Pretty awesome!

Minor point, but its actually 1200 titles. The Escient supports up to three Kenwood/Sony, 400-DVD carousel players. I should know, as I've got over 1100 titles right now (see my system link below), and I'm having to figure out how to free up some slots in the near future.

(Just as an aside, I'm currently experimenting with ripping selected DVDs to my digital server and playing them on a Ziova network DVD player.)

 

[Pcar928fan]

Minor point, but its actually 1200 titles. The Escient supports up to three Kenwood/Sony, 400-DVD carousel players. I should know, as I've got over 1100 titles right now (see my system link below), and I'm having to figure out how to free up some slots in the near future.

(Just as an aside, I'm currently experimenting with ripping selected DVDs to my digital server and playing them on a Ziova network DVD player.)

DUH! Yea, how long has it BEEN since I learned to add?! JEEZUS man, 3 X 400 IS IN FACT 1200 titles! Been a long week already! I guess I was thinking of my Pioneer CD changer which is 300 discs...

 

[captain_tinker]

Only the original X-DAC has HDCD. I am a fan of HDCD and have looked at all of the DACs out there with HDCD decoding. PS audio, Musical Fidelity, Parasound, and Classe all made DACs with HDCD built in. :music:

Yeah, that seems to be what I am finding, very few of them have HDCD. I do like HDCD even though I don't have many of them. The first time I heard HDCD, I didn't really know what it was, in fact I didn't even know that the cd I was listening to was an HDCD. I just put it in, and it just sounded different for some reason, much nicer than the other cd's I had been playing. I then saw the HDCD light on my receiver was on. I ejected the cd and found that it had the HDCD logo on it. Thats when I realized that there really was a difference.

So I am really interested in being able to keep that functionality, even if I decide to get an external DAC. I used what you had written Beat Dominator, and looked for a PS Audio DAC with HDCD, and found an old model, the PS Audio Ultralink Two HDCD DAC. Has anyone here ever tried it, or heard it? Is it worth going with this if it is an older, no longer sold or supported DAC? That PS Audio Digital Link 3 DAC that was talked about earlier sure sounds like it is probably a very nice DAC, so perhaps this one is also?

-capT

 

[paulo m]

So I am really interested in being able to keep that functionality, even if I decide to get an external DAC. I used what you had written Beat Dominator, and looked for a PS Audio DAC with HDCD, and found an old model, the PS Audio Ultralink Two HDCD DAC. Has anyone here ever tried it, or heard it? Is it worth going with this if it is an older, no longer sold or supported DAC? That PS Audio Digital Link 3 DAC that was talked about earlier sure sounds like it is probably a very nice DAC, so perhaps this one is also?

-capT

Have you tried using an upsampling DAC (not oversampling) with and without reclocking? I've tried a few CDPs and DACs with that functionality and the advantage of higher resolution formats (SACD, DVD-A, HDCD) actually vanishes. Imagine grabbing a plain vanilla CD and having it sound e.g. like a well-recorded SACD...

 

[captain_tinker]

Have you tried using an upsampling DAC (not oversampling) with and without reclocking? I've tried a few CDPs and DACs with that functionality and the advantage of higher resolution formats (SACD, DVD-A, HDCD) actually vanishes. Imagine grabbing a plain vanilla CD and having it sound e.g. like a well-recorded SACD...

Paulo,
You see, that's exactly what I was wondering... If you get a good enough DAC, it won't matter if it has HDCD or not, because it is going to sound better than that already. That's what I was wondering, is it worth it to get one with HDCD? From what you said, probably not, because it will already sound really good. Ok then, thanks. I think my question has finally been addressed, and I know what I want to do now. That PS Audio DAC that Joey has and that Lugano mentioned also sounds like it would be worth listening to and trying out. I think that that may be one of my next steps, along with an external Amp, but the amp will be for another thread another time. Now I just need to come up with the cash and a good way to convince the wife to let me get it.

-capT

PS: that brings up another question, does a DAC exist that has a passthrough digital out? In other words, I would want to hook the DAC up to a DVD player and use the DAC for CD's, and then a passthrough digital out to go to the Dolby/DTS processor, in this case my receiver. Does something like that exist? If not I would have to use my second DVD player as the CD player, instead of just one unit for both.

 

[audioraptured]

Dac's

Capt. Tinker: still great questions. But I have the feeling that as soon as we get things pretty well sorted out; SONY will introduce something else and another company will make a competing format and we go the VHS vs Beta route again.....best of luck to you........

 

[paulo m]

Capt. Tinker: still great questions. But I have the feeling that as soon as we get things pretty well sorted out; SONY will introduce something else and another company will make a competing format and we go the VHS vs Beta route again.....best of luck to you........

Don't worry about future formats... Enjoy the music now!

 

[audioraptured]

DAC's

paulo m: Oh absolutely. I think many people worry about the specs or how good does it look compaired to the next guys, and do not really enjoy the music. By the way, what's your favorite "top three" demo discs and where are you in N.Y.

 

[paulo m]

paulo m: Oh absolutely. I think many people worry about the specs or how good does it look compaired to the next guys, and do not really enjoy the music. By the way, what's your favorite "top three" demo discs and where are you in N.Y.

I use my own set of 10-12 carefully selected CDs when I go audition equipment. I usually spend at least 1 hour listening, so I know them pretty well. As such, I have no interest in demo discs.

I am actually on the waterfront in Jersey City.

 

[lugano]

PS: that brings up another question, does a DAC exist that has a passthrough digital out? In other words, I would want to hook the DAC up to a DVD player and use the DAC for CD's, and then a passthrough digital out to go to the Dolby/DTS processor, in this case my receiver.

If the DVD player has both optical and coaxial outputs, the problem is solved. You connect the coax to the DAC and the optical to the receiver.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Have you tried using an upsampling DAC (not oversampling) with and without reclocking? I've tried a few CDPs and DACs with that functionality and the advantage of higher resolution formats (SACD, DVD-A, HDCD) actually vanishes. Imagine grabbing a plain vanilla CD and having it sound e.g. like a well-recorded SACD...

I recently purchased a Cary CDP1, which has five upsampling options. I agree with Paulo on this. You can really "dial in" the sound of a regular CD, with a very audible improvement, depending on the upsampling setting.

Having now experienced a player with this option, I don't think I would want to be without it.

GG

 

[paulo m]

I recently purchased a Cary CDP1, which has five upsampling options. I agree with Paulo on this. You can really "dial in" the sound of a regular CD, with a very audible improvement, depending on the upsampling setting.

Having now experienced a player with this option, I don't think I would want to be without it.

GG

When I had the Cary 306 SACD on loan the best option seemed to be the 192 kHz. The higher settings seemed to be too much of a good thing. What setting do you use?

I ended up not going with that one, as I thought it lacked a bit of refinement in the highs and the bass had too much slam. But it sure was a LOT of fun.

 

[Gordon Gray]

192 it is!

Hi Paulo,

Isn't that interesting. That's the setting I've settled on after many hours of listening. Regarding bass slam, not an issue with the Summits because you can fine tune the low end with the 2 x-over adjustments.

GG

 

[captain_tinker]

If the DVD player has both optical and coaxial outputs, the problem is solved. You connect the coax to the DAC and the optical to the receiver.

Lugano,
Haha! Again, you come through for me, how simply obvious, I can't believe I did not even think of that. :duh: Thanks again man!

Though interestingly enough, last night I was looking at that same Cary SACD player that Gordon and Paulo were just talking about. That could certainly be something interesting to listen to. Man, so many options, so little money... Though depending on price, the DAC may end up much more economical. Dang, I'm having WAY too much fun with this!

-capT