Copper Wire Lowes Electrical for Speaker Wire?

[Tosh]

Indeed you have made some ugly cables. But you have missed the advantage of using twisted pairs (low self-inductance) by not separating all the pairs at the ends as Speedskater said. But you can still do this before you terminate them.

And you will lose another low self-inductance advantage if you do not twist or braid the remaining cables together. So you're not done yet!

 

[Jimna]

....but they are twisted pair in the original sheath(hence the cat3 rating), so Im not loosing anything not by not removing the sheath and braiding the whole thing together right? or are you referring to the 2 pigtail ends at each end?

 

[amey01]

I am excited to try them....

........and I'm excited for your report!

 

[Speedskater]

Jimna, it's hard to say what the minute differences would be. When a communications technician wires a CAT6 jack, wire placement is important. But that's for the highest speed data transfer. If you really want to know, you could borrow a meter that the installers use to test data systems. Or if you are good at network hardware, you could hook the speaker wires up as a date network and see what the highest transfer rate is.

But, none of this matters for loudspeakers. Small differences at many mHz equal zero differences at audio frequencies.

 

[Bernard]

But, none of this matters for loudspeakers. Small differences at many mHz equal zero differences at audio frequencies.

mHz=milli-Hertz

 

[Speedskater]

mHz=milli-Hertz

I'm happy if I type my name correctly.

 

[Jimna]

Thanks for all the help and fresh points of view. I finished them tonight, only to find out the spade connectors I have are to small on the amp end. I'll have to drive into Boulder on lunch and by a couple banana ends. I might spring for the techflex too while I'm there because they are soooo ugly. If they do stay I am certainly dressing them up! They look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

 

[Tosh]

....but they are twisted pair in the original sheath(hence the cat3 rating), so Im not loosing anything not by not removing the sheath and braiding the whole thing together right? or are you referring to the 2 pigtail ends at each end?

You can keep the jacket on. But do as Speedskater said: Untwist each pair at both ends and combine all the solid colors into the 'plus' conductor and all the stripes into the 'minus' conductor.

 

[Bernard]

I'll have to drive into Boulder on lunch and by a couple banana ends. I might spring for the techflex too while I'm there because they are soooo ugly. If they do stay I am certainly dressing them up! They look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

Why banana ends? I dislike banana ends as I find that the contact is not tight enough, except if they are lockable. In the CLX manual (I think) ML recommends spades. Cardas makes some great spades.

 

[Jimna]

You can keep the jacket on. But do as Speedskater said: Untwist each pair at both ends and combine all the solid colors into the 'plus' conductor and all the stripes into the 'minus' conductor.

OK, I wasnt understanding your point....this is what I have done. I used a different color scheme for my plus/minus, but have done this exact process.


Bernard, I agree on spades vs bananas and didn't know ML recommended otherwise. There is a family owned and run electrical supply house in Boulder that is the best I've ever been in, and since I'm all about the "think global, drink local" mindset I'll only by my electrical needs from them. So I think Ill heed your advice and by spades if they have them(which was my original choice). BTW, anyone here in the front range that needs this sort of thing, please consider them. They sell everything PC/HT too, I saw a 100' HDMI cable there last time for $50!! Their prices are unbelievable, and they have everything you could possibly need. http://jbsaundersco.com/ Best part is if you have a question the father and son who own the place are very well versed in what they sell. They saved me $80 once because I was going to attempt something that had no chance of working, and they told me so instead of just letting me waist my money. It is rare to find the knowledge base plus integrity that they have anymore. Highly recommended!

 

[Tosh]

OK, I wasnt understanding your point....this is what I have done. I used a different color scheme for my plus/minus, but have done this exact process.

You're still not understanding: If you combine any of the twisted pairs at the ends (solid & stripe), then you have missed the main advantage of using twisted pair wire. Don't use a different color scheme: Combine ONLY stripes into the 'minus' conductor and ONLY solids into the 'plus' conductor (or vice versa). Solids together. Stripes together. No mixing.

 

[Jimna]

My coworker and I talked this over today and I now understand.

Looks like I have some retro-fitting in my near future. I did buy the techflex today too, hopefully they wont be so fugly.

 

[JustinJ]

Did you every test out your speaker cable wires? Was it worth the effort of braiding?

 

[Jimna]

Oh yes, I forgot about this thread, please for give me this is heavy concert season. Ill post some pics tonight or tomorrow, but I love them! I did loose about 6-8 inches off each fixing the mis-matched pairs and re-terminating them, and Ive added techflex to each to pretty them up a bit(actually it makes them look tons better), but they have been in use full time about a month now. They are a wee bit less bright than the silver I was using, but they seem to have opened up the sound stage some too. Over all I like them, they are staying!

Ill post pics asap.

 

[OldMonolith]

....if Im using 6 equal lengths of cat3.

But you didn't use equal lengths!

Why??? Every one of those four twisted pairs has a different twist rate. So, the length isn't the same, as it takes more length the more it's twist goes up! Differing twist rate is part of how the design minimizes crosstalk between the pairs laying right together side by side.

In high quality manufactured cable designs, I think will find different conductor sizes used, but I also think you'll find they usually use very carefully the same length on individual conductors. Anybody know differently?? Not that I can recall ever reading of.

I am glad to hear what you've accomplished you are happy with! That is what matters in the end. And I'm certainly the first to like something even better when I can do it and save money!

Make sure that you try checking your judgement two ways. Use the short term change impression. But then also do the long term! Get real used to your new set by listening long term, like several weeks. Then change back to your original long term familiar set and see if those impessions still hold. Sometimes it'll confirm...and then sometimes it will surprise!

OldMonolith

 

[Speedskater]

If we are sending high speed computer information down one pair then the length of each wire is important. For balanced interconnects the important thing is that the wire pair be symmetrical about ground. For speaker wire the important thing is low self-induction (well low resistance is important too).

 

[Jimna]

well Im a liar, my gear is all packed up to head out to a music festival in the high country, so no pics this weekend, sorry.

FTR, when I re-worked them I added 2 more runs of cat3, so 8 total, and I did measure them all to be equal lengths. Also I tried to twist the ends as evenly as possible to maintain equal lengths. I did do a lot of A/B comparision the first weekend I used them and time and again they sound better to my ears, and my wife agreed too.

Ill post photos next week, sorry to delay but this gig came up last minuet and is a camping ordeal which has thrown me through a loop.

 

[Jimna]

Here we go, finally got the pics taken. I really do like these cables. As I mentioned, I used 8 runs of cat3 so I could reach (actually exceeded) 10 gauge cables. I added the techflex to tidy them up and make them look semi normal.

 

[Jimna]

 

[Tosh]

I finally sat down and terminated these cables with Vampire spades. They are made of 2 runs of CAT3 (solid 24AWG) and 2 runs of CAT5 patch cables (stranded 24AWG, not solid) for a total of 12AWG. Next I will make some in white/white/black/gray that will appear more subdued....