Commercial cineplex QSC amp

[W0LBER1NE]

Hello, I am embarking on my first Martin Lawrence purchase, most likely a pair of used Summit (possibly Montis in case anyone has opinions on Summit’s dual 10” deeper extension to 24 hz 270 crossover vs Montis 29 hz and 340 crossover with 24-bit Vojtko DSP )

My question for this forum teeming with well-educated and knowledgeable enthusiasts, is it entirely silly for me to believe that I might use a commercial QSC amp to drive the summit pair? I have 4 stereo amp QSC 1500 (750 watt x2 at 4 ohm ) and one QSC 900 (450x2) that I’d like to repurpose if possible.

I’m planning to use preamp outputs from Denon 4400-H to share source components Sony x800 SACD/DVD-A universe Blu-ray player.

The Summit has bi-wire bi-amp terminals, but since they internally have dual powered 200 wattx2 class D sub amps doesn’t this negate the option to bi-amp / bi-wire altogether?

Also I understand too much power can exert a cone behind its tolerance and tear. Does the same hold true for electrostatic panel if I attempt to use these QSC amps until I get a dedicated amp for this 2-ch system.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[TomDac]

Martin Lawrence??? ROFL.. that's a first.

 

[ttocs]

You never know when AutoCorrect will strike! It's gotten me many times. I worry more about that than zombies! (not The Zombies, I always liked their music)

 

[Brad225]

Come on Tom, give a guy a brake. He posted at 5 AM. Maybe they will rename the town Martin Lawrence, Ka.

Sorry WOLBER1NE, it's all in good fun. Welcome.

I don't know anything about those amps but.
My thought is most commercial amplification may not have the subtle delicacies that audiophile type equipment would.
I don't see any reason you can't try them and see how they sound.
As for Bi-Amping, I would use the Class D amps in the speakers if they have them.

 

[roberto]

Hello, I am embarking on my first Martin Lawrence purchase, most likely a pair of used Summit (possibly Montis in case anyone has opinions on Summit’s dual 10” deeper extension to 24 hz 270 crossover vs Montis 29 hz and 340 crossover with 24-bit Vojtko DSP )

My question for this forum teeming with well-educated and knowledgeable enthusiasts, is it entirely silly for me to believe that I might use a commercial QSC amp to drive the summit pair? I have 4 stereo amp QSC 1500 (750 watt x2 at 4 ohm ) and one QSC 900 (450x2) that I’d like to repurpose if possible.

I’m planning to use preamp outputs from Denon 4400-H to share source components Sony x800 SACD/DVD-A universe Blu-ray player.

The Summit has bi-wire bi-amp terminals, but since they internally have dual powered 200 wattx2 class D sub amps doesn’t this negate the option to bi-amp / bi-wire altogether?

Also I understand too much power can exert a cone behind its tolerance and tear. Does the same hold true for electrostatic panel if I attempt to use these QSC amps until I get a dedicated amp for this 2-ch system.

Many thanks in advance.

Hola WOLBER1NE,
First of all, welcome. The Summits are great speakers. They come with dual Bang and Olufsen digital power amps built in to drive the woofers. You are right, they can not be by-passed. The possibility for bi-wire only, you can not use two power amps. The amp that you are going to use, it will drive the stat panels only. The Stat panels load for your amp will be circa 4 ohms. The low frequency info will go to the crossover (the whole signal content will at the biding posts) and the load for the bass signal will be for the amp around 4000 ohms. This low frequency info will no load the amp.
Martin Logan sound is more toward quality than quantity. I will show your electronics quality. Because the panels are large, they move a lot of air. This is what makes ML heart and its sound to be so neat, free of distortion, and also providing quality!.
Here are a couple of videos that will teach you how to get more out of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHWP6Bq8rHw and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsBUFCsyP4s&t=29s

There are a lot of different paths for music reproduction. This is one of them. If you like what you hear, then you are hooked. No other speaker will do what ML can do. Transparency, coherence, stage, size of the instruments, harmonic texture, air between the instruments, no sore throats. There is no hoarseness at all. Voices are pristine! If you like rock, listen Pompeii by David Gilmore...the guitar is breath taking. If you like to play loud, perhaps these speakers are not for you. Please, don't get me wrong here. They do play very loud if you want.

Keep in mind to try different components, and you will hear and listen of the nuances and details that you never thought they were there. The inner detail of a violin or cello. The plucking of the double bass strings is fantastic. John Clayton and Diana Krall, with Antony Wilson and Jeff Hamilton will be performing for you there...in your own room, and will do the same, any day, any hour!

Follow the general ML rules, and you are done. It is not too difficult, but everything will be granted as an incredible sound with the musician(s) there for you!
Happy listening

 

[JonFo]

If driving a self-amplified model like the summit, the external amp will be only driving the panel. The woofers are powered by the built-in Class-D amps.
Bi-wiring these model is a waste.

As for those QSC amps, first, those are some fairly old models, they seem to be class A/B and geared more for commercial sound reinforcement duties driving easy loads. An ESL panel is not exactly easy, with complex impedance curves and a fair amount of reactance. If you do try one of them, do NOT bridge it, as that raises the minimum impedance it can handle.

I have a QSC GX5 amp, which is a class H amp that might do OK on the panels, but I've never tried it for that, I use it for my Mid-Bass modules. When I modded it to quiet the fans, I noted the limited number of output devices and the lightweight heat-sinks. So it does not look designed to drive complex loads for extended periods, which is why it is inexpensive.

Your other challenge is matching the consumer-level output of the Dennon to the pro-level inputs of the amps. You may or may not have enough gain to drive the amps to their full output, and the delta in sensitivity will likely raise the noise floor.

You are better off finding a used Sunfire Stereo amp to drive the ESLs.

 

[TomDac]

Come on Tom, give a guy a brake.

I see what you did there.. LOL

 

[W0LBER1NE]

Wow, what an incredibly energetic and helpful forum, I can tell I’m going to like it here ��

So many thanks to each of you for investing your valuable time to help me, Tom, Brad, Jonathon, Roberto, and ttocs. I’m very appreciative, even if my Martin Logan speakers are Alibaba knockoffs that say “Martin Lawrence” on them �� Seriously, my first post and ����*

Ok, this makes sense,.. bi-wire, bi-amp just supplies power to different drivers, like a conventional cone and dome box speaker, but since ML does not crossover between mids and highs (as it’s one big “stator” (?) electrostatic panel) the only place to use an extra amp would be on a passive woofer with their own binding posts.

The Summit, Montis, and now Impression 11A that I’ve started to talk myself into, all have internally powered woofers, so it’s unnecessary.

Yes, the QSC amps are quite old, left to me in a house I bought. I’ve always heard ML speakers are hard to drive and need a high-end, high-dollar amp, so my plan was to buy as much speaker as I can afford now, and use what I’ve got to get by until an avenue for a “real” amplifier presents itself 8 or 10 months down the road when I may be in a better position to afford something nicer.

The QSC’s are all rated for 4 ohm, and I thought might be a better option than an Integra 2-ch amp needing service, a 16-ch Control 4 whole house 16-ohm amp, or super cheap AudioSource 5.3a monoblock amps used to drive transducers in a previous home theater sofa.

Good suggestion for a Sunfire Stereo Amp — long ago i sold many a Sunfire multichannel amp. That might just be the ticket in lieu of a boutique brand, at least for now.

I am unable to find a general consensus of agreement on the best reasonably priced amp to drive electrostatics. Is it safe to assume the amp-speaker interaction is not consistent across the brand? E.g. if I make the plunge on Impression 11A with a different sonic signature , will an amp that’s known to work well with Summit, Montis or Theos, likely exhibit the same characteristics in a predictable way on C9 or 11A, or do users typically favor a certain product “pairing” over a generic one amp fits all ML e-stats model?

Considering the 92db sensitivity rating if I splurge for the 11A, might that little Denon AVR 4400-H I have get me a good portion of the way there instead of even taking the chance using the commercial QSC amps? Preference was for Denon to power Monitor Audio current system, and reserve ML for more critical listening and musical enjoyment, with an option to augment main fronts with surrounds, inwalls, and a center later.

Roberto, YES, as a guitar player, I am a huge David Gilmour fan. And I thought the Live in Pompeii Blu-ray sounded pretty good on my Monitor Audio Gold GS-60, GS-FX 9.1 system. I’m very eager now to engage much more deeply with the music now if these superlatives prove to be accurate on my system too.

Thanks all

 

[roberto]

Wow, what an incredibly energetic and helpful forum, I can tell I’m going to like it here ��

So many thanks to each of you for investing your valuable time to help me, Tom, Brad, Jonathon, Roberto, and ttocs. I’m very appreciative, even if my Martin Logan speakers are Alibaba knockoffs that say “Martin Lawrence” on them �� Seriously, my first post and ����*

Ok, this makes sense,.. bi-wire, bi-amp just supplies power to different drivers, like a conventional cone and dome box speaker, but since ML does not crossover between mids and highs (as it’s one big “stator” (?) electrostatic panel) the only place to use an extra amp would be on a passive woofer with their own binding posts.

The Summit, Montis, and now Impression 11A that I’ve started to talk myself into, all have internally powered woofers, so it’s unnecessary.

Yes, the QSC amps are quite old, left to me in a house I bought. I’ve always heard ML speakers are hard to drive and need a high-end, high-dollar amp, so my plan was to buy as much speaker as I can afford now, and use what I’ve got to get by until an avenue for a “real” amplifier presents itself 8 or 10 months down the road when I may be in a better position to afford something nicer.

The QSC’s are all rated for 4 ohm, and I thought might be a better option than an Integra 2-ch amp needing service, a 16-ch Control 4 whole house 16-ohm amp, or super cheap AudioSource 5.3a monoblock amps used to drive transducers in a previous home theater sofa.

Good suggestion for a Sunfire Stereo Amp — long ago i sold many a Sunfire multichannel amp. That might just be the ticket in lieu of a boutique brand, at least for now.

I am unable to find a general consensus of agreement on the best reasonably priced amp to drive electrostatics. Is it safe to assume the amp-speaker interaction is not consistent across the brand? E.g. if I make the plunge on Impression 11A with a different sonic signature , will an amp that’s known to work well with Summit, Montis or Theos, likely exhibit the same characteristics in a predictable way on C9 or 11A, or do users typically favor a certain product “pairing” over a generic one amp fits all ML e-stats model?

Considering the 92db sensitivity rating if I splurge for the 11A, might that little Denon AVR 4400-H I have get me a good portion of the way there instead of even taking the chance using the commercial QSC amps? Preference was for Denon to power Monitor Audio current system, and reserve ML for more critical listening and musical enjoyment, with an option to augment main fronts with surrounds, inwalls, and a center later.

Roberto, YES, as a guitar player, I am a huge David Gilmour fan. And I thought the Live in Pompeii Blu-ray sounded pretty good on my Monitor Audio Gold GS-60, GS-FX 9.1 system. I’m very eager now to engage much more deeply with the music now if these superlatives prove to be accurate on my system too.

Thanks all

Recently Roger Waters was performing, and of course, I went. The sound was quite impressive. A lot of bass energy and the instruments and voice were over-sized, but I do understand that they have to play this way to fill our National Stadium. I do not complaint of the performance of my system. Of course I am not playing at that SPL, but I do not need to. The stage and the sense of being there is what I do like. And that's what I am getting here. Crystal clear instruments with the right timbre, and when David Gilmore plays, it is very, very nice.

My CLXs love my tube amp and preamp. They are a Conrad Johnson model Classic One Twenty SE and ET-7. These units have a very high quality parts, like teflon capacitors and metal foil resistors. These resistors are the most free of noise that the electronic industry can make. The teflon capacitors have the ability to give the same capacitance, no matter the working voltage. On other type of capacitors, (mylar, tantalum, electrolytic, paper oil, etc) the stated capacitance value might vary with the working voltages. The teflon capacitors are use mostly as a coupling devices.

I am sure that C-J is one of the brands that you could consider. At Ebay, you might find a good deal. Yes, I do know that out there are many high quality options too. But perhaps you might like as I do, I am also a guitar player.
If you send a PM to me with your email address, I can send some recordings with my musicians friends where we get together and have fun playing. We do it, because we love music. The recordings are for us, and there is no commercial intention. We play a lot of Brazilian bit, Bossa Nova. We are grandpas mostly.

Happy listening!